Mijostyn , I am well aware of the difference in the method for speed control between the SOTA eclipse system, and the Denon Dp80, because I have both, as you may know. Of course, I do not own a Sota TT, but I have the phoenix engineering prequel to it, controlling the speed of my Lenco. Now as to which is the better way to control speed, you are just making up a story that fits an argument that the Sota method (or the phoenix engineering method) is superior to that of the Denon. I could make up an equally compelling argument in favor of the Denon, but since we have no head to head data, I won’t bother. The Denon is extremely good at it, and so is the eclipse system, and I defy you to hear a particle of difference between them . Denon did publish specifications, showing speed stability over time when they marketed the Dp80. If you search for their promotional material from that era, you will find it. Data are shown in their owners manual, I think. I might also add that the Kenwood L07D from 30 years ago used a magnetic elevated bearing. You could also say that the Verdier TT which is entirely based on magnetic elevation, in the vertical plane, is now vintage material. Several other makers use full or partially magnetic vertical bearings too. So the SOTA mag lev bearing is not earth shattering or groundbreaking, but I am sure it is an improvement over the previous bearing.
As to springs, what I object to is internally, sprung turntables, where the motor on one hand and the platter and bearing on the other are treated differently, which is to say the motor is usually unsprung whereas the platter and bearing are sprung. I have reiterated this argument and my feeling about it many times over. That arrangement makes it impossible to avoid some speed variation Whenever the suspension is activated, because activation of the spring suspension will inevitably stretch or contract the belt which will change the speed momentarily. I could hear this effect quite plainly with my SOTA star sapphire vacuum hold down turntable that I owned for 10 years. This has little to do with the Minus K.
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Holmz, just buy the SOTA Eclipse package complete. Does it occur to you that the question “ where do I buy a DIY platter and bearing?” Is internally an oxymoron, since DIY implies you want to make those items yourself.
Raul, I have no conviction about what is the best suspension. I think each turntable and each environment may require a unique solution. But I do admire the Minus K, and I do dislike internal springs.
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What Raul says is undeniably correct, but I don't think a spring suspension is a panacea that puts an absolute end to "vibrations and resonances at microscopic levels". In fact, in some cases, or if badly implemented, such a suspension can make matters worse.
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To be clear, I did not intend to say that the SOTA sapphire is uncreative ; I meant that to start with one and only replace the cover (see Mijo definition of cover) does not involve innovation with respect to the starting material.
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Pindac, I did some research on line. From what I can tell, the DP80 was optionally equipped with a gunmetal platter MAT by some end users. Not a gunmetal platter. There was back and forth discussion of the benefits or lack thereof, on Audiokarma. Perhaps that is what you meant.
Like it (Mijostyn) or not (me), a Sota Sapphire in a different plinth (or "cover") is still a Sota Sapphire. Not much innovation or creativity is involved. I thought Holmz wanted to start from scratch. The best thing one could do for a Sota Sapphire is to equip it with the Sota Eclipse mod. That would be a much bigger benefit to its performance than would a new plinth. My opinion, of course.
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Raul, is that really you? Most persons who have examined the M-S DD units up close (I have not) come away with the conclusion that they are not well made, in sharp contrast to their behemoth belt-drive models, but most of all you (and I) have not liked the idea of mounting a tonearm over a footer, thereby assuring that environmental disturbances are radiated right into the tonearm pivot. Sure, there are possibly better DD TTs than the DP80, but I don't agree that the DQX1000 is one of them. Not everything made by M-S is pure gold. Also, to Holmz, the DQX is the only one to consider among the M-S DD TTs, because the Q indicates a quartz-referenced servo control. The DDX models do not have that feature.
Pindac, If you ever again to see a DP80 with an optional gun metal platter, I would greatly appreciate it if you would call that to my attention; I am very curious as I have never seen it or read of it. Moreover, the DP80 is basically a "lightweight" platter design, relatively speaking. The Denon literature makes a big deal out of the split in the platter, between inner and outer elements held together by shock absorbing bridges. It is difficult to imagine how gunmetal as a build material would fit into their split-platter strategy. I certainly may be uninformed, and I am always curious to learn something new.
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Holmz-ie, The title of this thread is "DIY TT". So tell us about your DIY TT. It can't be a Star Sapphire. I thought you brought up a few DD turntables, like the aforementioned Denons.
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Pindac, I asked about your claim that Denon made a gunmetal platter for the DP80, or that there is an aftermarket gunmetal platter for it. Can you respond to that?
I have no beef with low mass plinths per se, but for a DD turntable, the plinth must anchor the motor so that it does not spin the chassis, or otherwise cause the whole TT to move due to Newton's Third Law of Motion (for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction). This is especially important if you use an outboard arm pod. You could use a low mass plinth, if you anchor it to a heavy shelf, for example. But if low mass is your god, then one really ought to look at Rega turntables, which are designed from the ground up to be lossy in terms of energy retention. The notion that you need a low mass plinth so you can move your TT around to various audiophile gatherings is just not a factor for me or most of us. If portability is so important, then get a Rega which you could use just for that purpose. I've seen Linn LP12s at audio shows, just because of their portability. But neither would be my choice for home use.
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Pindac, you mention this: "three Denon DP80's, of which one has the Gunmetal Platter." I am at a loss to understand how a DP80 can accommodate a gunmetal platter, which presumably would have much higher mass than the original, but most of all, how do you incorporate the tape liner that is needed for the motor and servo to monitor platter speed? Are you saying the gunmetal platter was an option offered by Denon? If so, I learn something new and amazing every day. I never heard of it, and I would not have thought it possible, if the gunmetal platter is high in mass, like the old Micro Seiki types.
As regards Raul mentioning my slate plinth for the DP80, I made an engineering drawing for a waterjet company to program their computer, and I supplied them with a blank slate slab. They cut the hole for the Denon chassis and we even were able to reproduce the 3 holes for the screw fasteners. I would be happy to supply that template to anyone, if I can find it. In addition to procuring the slate slab, you'd need to engage a competent and willing waterjet company. The one I used is in York, PA.
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+1 for Raul’s advice. The earlier Denons in the "thousand" series, DP3000, etc, did not have quartz-locked servo control. The later 2-digit series, DP47 on up to DP75 and DP80 do have that, and you want that feature. The DP75 and DP80 are the best of that later series, with the unobtainable DP100 at the top. DP100 is a very large studio type machine with a huge motor. I own a DP80; subjectively it is remarkably good for the cost, even now at somewhat higher cost compared to when I bought mine. The one thing you want to be aware of: the platter has what looks like a piece of recording tape lining the inner rim of the platter. That needs to be in perfect condition for proper speed control; there is a stationary device that reads the speed continuously by monitoring that piece of tape, and makes corrections when needed. Electronics can be repaired, but so far as I know that tape can be a problem if badly damaged.
Actually, now that I see the current prices in the auction that Raul quoted, it's a steal if you can get either TT at near that price. BUT caveat emptor about that tape liner on the platter.
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