Directionality of wire

Some of this stuff is so simple and so easy to get to the truth.

Not being an engineer, or designer, or even producer of bulk wire, but just an end user and former electrical & electronics worker and technician and audio hobbyist for some decades, I’ll bite.

The ONLY directional cabling I know of are those with the little T former IMP matching boxes, and power cords.

Though, Power Cords especially. Why?

Because you can not reverse the ends. They don’t fit. Even if you push really hard!!

As for all other cables, SE/XLR IC, speaker wires, USB, Ethernet, HP cables, barring termination issues, and UNLESS there is an arrow printed on the exterior of the cable jackets, they MUST be bi-directional cables.

(Hint – if no cop is seen, use cables in either direction)

If an arrow is adorning the exterior of a cable, I’ll simply abide by the implied wishes of the maker… until it gets removed and later re inserted, then its anybody’s guess which way one or both wires wind up being connected….. and BTW…. I’ve yet to hear either alterations or degredations to the audio.

Nearly ALL connecting and speaker wires are bi directional for one simple reason. Cost.

Does anyone know exactly how much it costs for cable makers to have itty bitty microscopic signs made up for the electrons so they’ll know which way traffic should flow?

Its immense! And, there must be many of them posted all along the lengths of the conductors!

You will need “This way” signs on one side of each conductor, and “Wrong way’ signs on the other side of every conductor. Although there is an argument for having only one of each at opposite ends of each conductor.

It could run a cable manufacturer into bankruptcy! Although it opens the door for a brand new industry and more jobs.

Naturally people would simply transition from making tiny scarecrows and Elvis manikins for Ant farms as the onset of miniature crows infesting current ant Farm crops are at all time lows.

Of course, even proper signage won’t always keep traffic flowing properly. There will always be those electrons that are texting and driving or watching Youtube on their cell phones. Usually, it’s the more immature electrons who transgress.

Don’t believe me…. As is always the case here… try reversing one or both supposed directional cables and listen for yourself over the course of a few days or a week!!!

Why not? They are your wires, right?

@jea48 > Where is your proof? Hard data? Any science supportive of your claims?

Nope. Not a bit. Just my own ears and opinions as were put down in this thread. I;’m not even gonna Google it to further support my claims.

I don’t care what any science, measuring equipment, theory, or electronic pathology states about anything in life. At some point later on someone will challenge it or refute it, or entirely oust it from popular opinion..

Years ago Coffee was said to be carsenogenic. Then it was red meat. Then it was red meat cooked very rare, then later it was said only the cooked well done meat was bad. And next it will be something else. Super. Fine.

Here is what I can control and attest to which is not my own truth but ‘the’ truth……. As I am able to perceive it.

Once a highly resolving system is established, one with sufficient transparency, exchanging in and out links, componentws, accessories, are all detectable merely from familiarity and astute listening sessions.

Pardon the vain attempt at humor from the power cord no matter how hard you push business. Sorry. It sounded funny to me. It still does.

I view the world at large by hwat, how or when I experience it first hand. It is said here on these pages repeatedly “try it for yoruself’. If a doubt exists.

If you can hear a difference, then there is a difference, in your opinion and may well be a difference in fact. It doesn’t matter what someone else opinion may be… in this arena it is the opinion of whom so ever is chief cook, and bottle washer which matters.

As erstwhile, frank, direct and open as are the notes of our experience we so liberally post on these pages remains, I am hard pressed to figure anyone, is intentionally stating contrary information or being outright deceptive. Passionate? Misguided? Confused? Possibly. But I feel the subjective accounts of members herein are so very often, quite genuine.

I refuse to be lead about by some bit of scientific data which essentially means nothing to me, when I can simply connect this to that and find out first hand what has changed.

So ‘skin effect’ and hole flow’, and aligning microns of the metals thru cryogenics are all just so much nonsense to me.. there is far more to this hobby than focusing on the minutia and remaining so pedantic we allow a past time to become an ‘all the time’ situation. As Riley said about that particular point in time, “the Thrill is gone.”.

There is gonna be smoke and mirrors everywhere there is advertisement. Marketing. Sales and salesmanship. Competition. Technology.

Big deal.

Corvettes have a load of technology built into them lately. How we find out if we like one is to drive it. Period. No other way. We have to experience one first hand.

Audio is the same exact identical thing! Experience things first hand. Damn the technology. Damn the hype. Damn, a lot of this stuff is freakin’ expensive! Lol.

New approaches on older themes occurs all the time. OK. Choose. Listen to them and give them a try…. Or ignore them. Its your pick. I tend to give credence to whomever… at first … and if it is an affordable thing to experiment with.

I’m never gonna know what its like to have a room professionally treated for acoustics. Never gonna know what it’s like to have a complete DCS stack of electronics.

I recently heard Ethernet wires make a diff in the SQ. Really? Well, I can find that out for myself. And will.

Do wires need to be run in? well, they sure sound different after a few weeks of playing than they did the first couple days.

I have more than one system in house. Meager as it may be, it helps me get wires run in with out wasting the main rig’s resources. Hell, the refrigerator does most of the power cord brning in duties.

I’ll plug whatever into the main affair and check it out. But always that day or the next, put it/them into another system to get run in for 7 – 10 days and recheck them. Some need more than 200 hours. Some don’t.
I’m very allergic to ‘placebos’. They do nothing to me physically, but emotionally I’m irritated someone actually thought nothing in a pill could alter my state of mind. Its like being cheated. IMO

So which way should wires run? Find out for yourself. There’s no other legit argument and what you discover regardless what other’s say even in consensus, will be ‘the’ truth, won’t it?

I pray this sheds more light onto my previous post.

sorry. I was just informed about this.

It is sheer folly to argue or debate something one can easily prove or disprove using their own equipment.

In the case of directionality of wires, just listen to what is goong on now. Take notes.

Later, merely disconnect a pair and reinsert them in double reverse order, putting the pos on the neg, and the neg on the pos, plus, backwards from their original installation.

Listen after all is warmed up. Listen theu the next few days. Take more notes.

Compare the notes. Anthing different? You have your answer.

Regardless the conclusion , the case is closed. IYO. And it is indeed only Your Opinion that matters then and there.

For the record. I could care less about wires being directional or not. Any science or anecdotal information pro or con IMO is a moot issue.

One can if one wants, attribute it all to the FM circuit . in every component. Anything indefinable or unmeasurable, blame it on the FM circuit.

I only know some wires sound different than others. Just as some gear sounds different from other similaryly priced likewise gear. I know too, highly resolving gear sounds better after being warmed up and or run in, or both.

In essence, to coin an aged and aging Audio axiom, “Everything matters!”

@Geoffkait
Geoffkait > It’s always great when some excitable new person comes along and starts a new thread on wire directionality, especially when he is a skeptic.

Geoffkait > I always get a little bit suspicious when a long post starts out with the word truth in the first sentence and, "I’ve got decades of experience," in the next breath.

@Geoffkait

Blindjim > Demonstrating obvious disdain and suspicion towards another at the onset of any member’s post is regrettable behavior. Always. Its also a certain sign of a closed mind and intolerant attitude. Putting words into other mouths is worse.

> FWIW If you can bend your signal cables into a knot, put that knot into a container half filled with an old bottle of mogan David, stick a carnation in it, and all is supported on a bed virgin Siamese Cat’s whiskers, and hear a freaking difference, then Out damn standing!!! For you.

I won’t argue your beliefs. I don’t have your ears. Your gear. Or apparent mental state at that precise instant.

I’m about to break one of your forum rules by noting a few things here which seem to have been authored by others who concur given their accounts in this thread.

> Let me understand this, in the 13 or 14 pages of this topic, your posts amount to the most of any other member by an incredible margin. Its not even close if you do the math with Roman numerals.

So, then, it’s OK to say stuff so long as you merely say it briefly in spurts and bits, and regurgitate the same rhetoric over and over, ad nausea, instead of saying your piece and moving on?.

I did read thru the entire thread up and until my post. It took a couple hours give or take. But only about 35 mins leaving out your ‘Homeric’ commentary.

> I mean, man! You post and repost even if no one else posts in between, until someone does! Get a clue man.

> Buy another book of quotes. Better yet, try being original and develop your own. Developing your own home spun insights could possibly keep you from sniping at anyone who even remotely may appear to disagree with you. belittling others, sniping, making derogatory inferences and plainly demeaning someone else is despicable.

>> Not for nothing but I’ve been here as a member for a pretty good while (’03 - ‘04) and have seen the same arguments, inquiries, requests for help, best of’s, etc. time and again.

> this time I felt to infuse some humor and did.

“…unemployed ant farm scarecrow makers..”

“Power cords especially, Because you can not reverse the ends. They don’t fit. Even if you push really hard!!"”

> For anyone to read what I posted, and not see it as purely an brief interlude of humor defies logic and sensibility. Especially the last sentence I wrote on irreversible power cords which you took to task for some unknown inane quest.

> If you could not see the wit in even that line alone, you are hopelessly and haplessly witless. As so many of your poorly chosen juvenile attacks on other posters in this thread bares witness..

> You further confirm it by entirely omitting the proposal of ‘try it for yourself’. Completely. It is understandable as it does not suit your purpose and would vividly decry your own obnoxious and ill advised retort.

I went on to read thru the balance of this thread well, thru 10 pages of it as that was all I could take, and the primary things I came away with from it all is that you have some serious internal issues you should deal with ASAP.

Otherwise, I’m sure you are a great human being. However, It simply has not been visibly demonstrated in the context of this particular thread via your posts, untoward allegations and shattering insinuations you appear to take such pride in handing out simply defies further articulation.

And, As the strength of this topic spanned several days, there was sufficient time to easily determine it is more important to you to be right, than to be happy. As well, it is more important to you to be intolerant and inconsiderant and further your voice regardless the outcome. Argumentative is your forte. Not understanding, or allowing other people to just be other people is clearly and regrettably absent.

Of all the noteable insights provided on these pages Al among others volunteered his thoughts in an objective a manner as anyone could. To thereafter take his thoughts as condescending says a lot.

> we don’t drag in a cart of O scopes, and multimeters, am-probes, meggers, and lasers when we are about to hand over hundreds or thousands of bucks for this or that. We carry our fav media, and maybe we clean the wax from our ears, maybe not. We listen, and choose. Choosing solely on what we have heard, and what the deal involves.

The dialectric was pointed out and then more so later in this piece. Maybe that is it. Dunno. I do feel different wires, yield different results upon the sonics, and or presentation. This is based solely on EXP. Oh, and my ears. And my gear. In my home.

Not everyone will agree with me all the time. That’s not a bad thing actually. Free thinking should be promoted not devalued.

Be happy. Life is far too short to do otherwise too often.
.


jea48 >
blindjim - Don’t believe me…. As is always the case here… try reversing one or both supposed directional cables and listen for yourself over the course of a few days or a week!!!

jea48 > > Do you believe ICs and speaker cables SQ improve with break-in, burn-in, settle-in, or what ever you call it? If yes, where is the proof?.

Blindjim > yes. In my notes covering the time from initial installation to when the sound became consistent and without further noticeable changes or improvements. It is indeed only my proof, but it is sufficient, as it has been revisited time and again with various pieces which pass or operate with electricity.

This is how I attend to my ‘litmus’ test.


jea48 > > I can hear the SQ continue to improve after they have been playing music after an hour or two. I have read similar posts on audio forums and from audio magazine reviewers that state the same thing. I can't recall any actual bench tests using test equipment verifying the improvements in SQ though. Have you?

blindjim > nope it is a non issue IMO.

Although an argument sure seems the onus I’m not into it. I concur with many of your own EXPs. So… now what?

In 2001 had someone told me wires made a diff, I would have either laughed or shook my head and drifted away from their [presence. I was brought up in the era where we used lamp cords or extension cords for spkr wires. To be fancy we might buy a roll of pretty jacketed 16 to 12 AWG twing pair wires. Maybe.

Working commercially as an electrician for some time after being a electronics tech in the military for a number of years, my thoughts on wires and or cabling among other aspects of audioland, were nearly intractable.

Only thru first hand EXP with various items making up the audio system, bit by bit, did I begin to see not everything can always
be judged solely on its own merits if system synergy is the goal.


Everything matters. Somethings matter a lot. Some things matter less. Somethings simply do not matter at all but we think they do.

The mystery begins with the first amp and pair of speakers, the magic we seek, arrives later on as the system is fully arranged. It seems to have a life of its own. Its own voice.

I call this mysterious behavior and inexplicable outcomes due to the various FM ckts. Or ‘Freakin’ Magic circuit’.