digital room correction

"Steve, I assume that the specific positioning is in the far corners behind the speakers? Is it just that easy?"

No, the traps should be 1.5-2" behind the inner back edge of the speakers. Start with the backside of the trap being parallel to and along the inside edge of the speakers. Then rotate them outward a few degrees at a time until the centered vocalist becomes diffuse. Then rotate back. Then you will have the best mix of image focus, depth and width.

Mover them closer to the speakers or further away to get the best overall focus.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Steve,

Let's see some measurements of before and after. Post in your circle for all to see.

Steve, I assume that the specific positioning is in the far corners behind the speakers? Is it just that easy?

The reason for the 1/4 round tubetraps is to eliminate the effects of a HD screen or in your case, the cabinet. You will have improved imaging, depth and width. I tried to show you an example, but the moderators nixed it.

I personally have a combo HT and 2-chnl system. The only reason I can do this is the 1/4 round ASC traps and their specific positioning.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Thanks to all. I might get away with some good looking corner traps, but I think that would be about it.

I have the speakers about three inches at the back of the speaker in front of the cabinet.I do have nicely focused voicing and fairly good detail placement within the soundstage, but very little depth and the soundstage never extends past the speakers.

There is no chance of removing the cabinet between speakers. Am I wasting time and money by trying corner traps? I have been playing with toe in, sound anchor speaker stands, placement, ICs, speaker wire, Dacs, etc. for three years and have the positioning as good as its going to get without removing the system and going to another room (not a possibility).

Thanks to everyone for your consideration. Always find advice here helpful and generous.

"I disagree with EQ being more important than room treatments."

That's not what I said, I said "Room Correction", not room treatments. Room correction is generally DSP software that tries to eliminate room and speaker anomalies by changing the signal. This is more than just EQ tweaks usually and more focused on bass.

I have use room correction with DEQX equipment at shows.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Download HolmImpulse (Free) or REW also free and get a micpre and a calibrated mic and do some room measurements.

It's the ONLY way to really know what's going on and correct it.

Good Luck!

I disagree with EQ being more important than room treatments. I've never had my system EQ'd and the soundstage and imaging are spooky to say the least.
Though, if you have a speaker that is not sized to the room, maybe EQing would be important.
I'm not stateing that I couldn't benifit from Eqing my system, but for imaging and depth in soundstage that the OP is searching for. It's hard to beat room treatments and speaker placement.

I also agree with Bryan. Find the sweetspot for the speakers, and the correct toe-in first. You should have some basic room treatments, including side-wall reflection absorbers. Use a hand-mirror on the sidewalls to determine where to put them. 4" sonex works great, but its ugly. If you have WAF to deal with, then see the nice graphics you can get on the GIK acoustic panels.

Once you have these installed and the speakers located and toed-in properly (this can take months of trial and error, but worth it), then you might consider adding some 1/4 round ASC tubetraps near the rear insides of the speakers. Face the round surface inwards. These then can be "tuned" by moving them forward and backward along the inner line of the speaker walls. You can also rotate them slightly outwards to improve width of soundstage. These tubetraps in this configuration are not being used for bass, then are reflective in order to scatter unwanted backwave.

Finally, once you have these all done and it sounds pretty good and the image is focused (the source components must be really good for pinpoint imaging), then use Amarra EQ to dial-in the remaining bumps in the response. You will need a decent capacitor mic and a handheld spectrum analyzer. Then you will know where the bumps are and be able to input these to Amarra EQ and eliminate them. As long as you do 6-8dB of correction for each bump, this will sound good. Dont get carried away. Amarra EQ is extremely transparent and has 3 tunings for 3 bumps or rolls in the frequency response.

Room correction is less important than tuning the speakers in the room to get them as flat as possible.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

I agree with Bryon. Treating a room with room treatments will give the depth and imaging that you've heard so much about.
So many people buy the best gear and stop short of treating the room. They're only half way there if they do.

Nothing, and I mean nothing will do more for a system than a well treated room.

I never have reached the holy grail that I read about, which is more depth, wall to wall soundstage and that holographic feel.

I don't think room correction is the right approach to this problem. I use room correction myself, so I am not discouraging you from trying it. Room correction, or simply EQ, can yield huge improvements in bass SQ, but it is not the best approach to issues relating to imaging and soundstaging, IMO.

I strongly suspect that the problem is your listening room.

If you want more depth, I'm afraid you're going to have to get rid of the cabinet between the speakers. IME, any large object between the speakers diminishes soundstage depth and interferes with "holographic" imaging. If you could get your speakers farther from the front wall, that might also help improve depth.

If you want to improve the overall size of the soundstage, you may want to look at the ratio of diffusion to absorption in the room. Is the room overly damped? Adding diffusion can dramatically improve soundstaging.

If you remove the cabinet from between the speakers and add diffusion both behind the speakers and at the first-order reflection points on the side walls, I think you will be well on your way toward finding what you're looking for.

Good luck.

Bryon