Digital harshness or Clipping?


Category: Amplifiers

My good friend, who is largely responsible for getting me hooked on this hobby over twenty years ago, stopped by my studio yesterday for listen. My SET system is now there at work instead of at home as it indicates in my virtual system. We've both been addicts for twenty years and listen to a lot of different music. We always have a fun time introducing each other to new stuff. One of my recent favorites on frequent rotation, that I've brought up on another thread here, is an early music recording Jordi Savall's excellent label, AllaVox. The CD is, "El Cant de la Sibil-La" (Alla Vox AV9806), with his wife Montserrat Figueras, who has a remarkable soprano voice. I put this one on after we'd been listening for a while and my friend was very impressed with the system. I was curious to see what he'd say about this recording as I had my own theories. Of course, he noticed it right away: When the soprano hits the highest highs of those upper registers, there is a "brittleness" to the sound, almost a kind of breaking up of the otherwise remarkable smoothness of her voice. I have a few Alla Vox recordings and they are astounding in quality. So I'd thought it was more likely something other than that. I'd thought, because I'd brought my 8 watt amps and 115db efficiency speaker into a much larger space that it actually had them clipping at that point (yes, we were listening at a substantial volume (I'm guessing 90+ db in the listening position). The room is over 1000 sq feet in the wood loft of a horse barn with 12 foot ceilings. My friend Jon, who is a big fan of vinyl, thought instead that it was the digitits rearing it's ugly head. My front end at work is pretty darn good, a Naim CD5 with HiCap. The rest of the system is as my virtual system indicates, though speaker wires are now Au24's. When I take the CD home and play it on the system there (35 watts of push/pull into 90db floorstanders in a small room), at higher volumes I can hear the same thing albeit a bit more 'rounded' off. There my front end is a Muse Model 5 & Model 2-Plus DAC so also pretty good. The breaking up is much less apparent when the volume is down to more reasonable levels.

So my question is; do you guys think this is clipping beginning to happen at the higher volumes, or is it an artifact of digital reproduction amplified to bring out the worst at an extreme given the louder volume?

Someone recently posted the great suggestion of a "Questions for Sean" section.....This is just the kind of question I'd like to get your input on Sean, as well as others of course!

Best,

Marco

PS Should anyone have this same recording I'd be curious to hear if they encounter a similar effect. There are two versions I've found of this one with the same performers, and this is the one an Alla Vox and is a much better recording and performance, IMO, than the other.
jax2

Showing 4 responses by jax2

Because there are two recordings I know of of this piece, I found the right one on Amazon in case anyone is interested in which one it is. You can find it here

As I said, there is another recording of the same piece....same performers, same space, different performance and label. Nowhere near as good as the one above IMO.

Marco
Thank you both for the responses. I forgot to bring the recording home so will have to get back with some responses to both suggestions. I'll post tomorrow with that information.

Many thanks!

Marco
Sean and all- I just wanted to listen carefully again to confirm what I already had perceived: Listening to the recording at a lower volume, at least on the SET/horn system at work, I really can't tell that there is any distortion on those same high notes that would otherwise be quite obvious at higher volumes. On some I can hear it, but I'm wondering if that is is fed by my expectations. On most I cannot hear any distortion listening around 80db+ (very moderate level for a large space). I do recall listening to the same CD on my friends system with a Unico Unison (80W hybrid amp) and having the similar objections which I attributed to the SS rearing it's ugly head. So I'm thinking that it is the recording and not the gear since it occurs on three entirely different systems. Weird that it doesn't occur to me at the lower volumes though. Perhaps I need to get my hearing checked.

As far as the recording techniques, unfortunately there is no notation as to how it is recorded (there are extensive multi-lingual notes relating to the history of the piece and the proposal for the performance itself). The CD is made in Austria by Sony and is not marked with the typical acronym for how it was produced (ie AAD, DDD, etc.). I checked another of box-set I have on the AllaVox label of Jordi Savall performing solo. Again, no references to recording techniques and lots of history. On that recording, which is also outstanding, I believe they must have had the mics very close to the performers as the breathing is very pronounced. Almost to the point of distraction, but ultimately the music is so powerful, and the presence of the instrument(s) so remarkable, that I it just enhances the intimacy. I mention it because it definitely occurs to me as a unique recording in that respect.

I'd be curious to hear from anyone else who's heard the recording in question (Sibil-La) and could comment directly to having heard this.

Thanks to all who posted for taking the time to respond.

Marco
Since writing the original query, and only just recently, I've done a couple of major changes to the studio speakers (LaScalas). I was finding that in the much larger space of the studio, and with the very loose wood floors sucking up much of the bass, that they speakers occured to me to be out of balance. I went back to the ALK crossovers which allow some tweaking in the form of varying attenuation in the Squawker. In the smaller room in my home that the speakers were once in (see my system pics) I preferred the AA crossover with the ALK sounding less 'musical' to my ears there (for lack of a more authorative description - I did go back and forth extensively). In the hayloft that is my studio, the ALK's worked wonders and actually sounded better than the AA's. I found also that the recording in question, which remains a favorite, sounded a bit better, but still displayed similar, albeit less pronounced, breaking up at those highest notes. OK, so recently I tried switching tweeters from the stock K77, to a pair of Fane tweaters (English made, used in Edgarhorns - very sensitive. Huge magnet. Slot tweeter). Initially I thought the new tweets sounded a bit hot (110db efficiency was a bit too much), but they did display a remarkable improvement in smoothness and clarity in the high end. I contacted Al Klappenberg, who was kind enough to consider the specs on the Fanes and run the figures through his filtering program to suggest a pair of resistors to pad down the tweets about 6db. He'd nailed it and, with a slight bit of tweaking with the Squawker settings they now blend in seemlessly, and that clarity is remarkable. So the other upshot of this is that I put that very CD on as a test just the other day and low and behold, those highs are no longer distorting anywhere nearly as much. In fact, I can barely perceive any at all. I have to listen again to prove this to myself, but I was quite amazed the first time round. I've also changed amplifcation sources at home since posting this and have yet to try it there. More to come......

Marco