Did Amir Change Your Mind About Anything?

ASR hasn't just changed my mind on things such as the importance of measurements, the respect for the science of audio (Toole, Olive, Choueri, Barton, Shaw etc), the acknowledgment of the work done by professional broadcasting manufacturers (Genelec, KEF, Neumann etc) it's also changed the way more and more reviewers are now recognising the increasing need to back up their subjective opinions with hard science.

@gosta 

Most I think he should get some thanks for fighting the industry.

Absolutely he should.

Unlike almost virtually every other reviewer he relies almost solely upon the goodwill and kind donations of his readers. The ASR forum has certainly changed the way we look at audio and there's no going back now.

Of course some manufacturers and dealers will always be less than pleased with his conclusions, and we should expect that as they are trying to push product. Selling is their business - numbers, units, turnover, dollars, pounds etc.

However, for us the potential consumer, it's all good news. Highly detailed and backed up with a generous presentation courtesy of the Klippel NFS technology. Technology that the likes of Ascend Acoustics are now employing in the development of future loudspeakers

Lastly, lest we forget, Amir nearly always includes his own listening impressions at the end of each review.

What's not to like?

@chayro 

I think that Amir, in a round about way, reminds us of how powerful our biases are.

Good point.

These days there are entire industries devoted to the science of fooling us by exploiting our psychological frailties.

Call it marketing or call it plain lying, there's little doubt that it now features in all walks of life. Folks like Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and Rolf Dobelli, Dan Arialy and others have made a good living by shedding light on how our minds can be manipulated.

You only have to look at the recent MoFi controversy. All of a sudden, previously content customers and reviewers became unhappy with the sound quality only after it emerged that some digital masters had been used instead of the advertised analogue ones.

Sites like ASR can go a long way towards stripping away this veneer of slick marketing spin. That very visible exchange between Amir and GR - Research was no doubt mildly entertaining, but I didn't see why Amir should single out Danny Richie.

Not when there's plenty of other miscreants out there propagating equal amounts of 'blinding with science' falsehoods.

Besides, whatever ASR put out can easily be challenged or responded if the manufacturer so wishes.

That free interchange of ideas and opinions is largely what this hobby is all about, isn't it?

Ok, there's also the music, but you know what I mean.

Ultimately it is all about money and business, and it's not too difficult to see why some folks here get very hot and bothered by that fact.

@rlj 

No doubt Amir and ASR have done some great work in shedding more light at the science of testing audio equipment but they are not the only ones.

Archimago’s Musings is an interesting site to dip into now and again. Detailed analysis on varied interesting audio topics can regularly be found there.

Then there’s Erin, at Erin’s Audio Corner YouTube channel. Like Amir he also employs a Klippel Near Field Scanner to provide data to back up his reviews. Erin is also not one to hold back from any criticisms if and when he discovers possible issues.

Audioholics website is yet another example of where the science of audio testing is being increasingly pushed to the forefront.

Amir has certainly changed my outlook in the same way that the likes of Peter Aczel and Alan Shaw did before him.

Of course, for entertainment purposes I will still read non science based reviews in future, but only as works of pure fiction or clever marketing.

@mahgister 

Amir do a free service that is and will be welcome...Dont kill the messenger...

In ancient times the bearer of 'unwelcome' news' could often found himself on the receiving end of much scorn.

Judging by the way the likes of Peter Aczel, Ethan Winer, Alan Shaw, and Amir himself have been treated by so many in recent times, I guess some things haven't changed all that much.

@amir_asr 

Ask any high-end acoustician what the #1 problem with DIY acoustic is and they tell you people creating dead rooms because of this mistake."

Sometimes you are far better off doing nothing than doing something.

I was sorry to read your reaction to Erin's latest video.

For sure there was some clickbait involved but Erin's list was just a bit of fun considering he's not really reviewed that many models so far.

I still tend to see his channel more as a complimentary one to yours rather than as a direct rival.

It might also be worth remembering that some of the most factually accurate and informative channels ever on YouTube also have a pitifully small number of subscribers.

However, as you rightly say Amir, you are the host of the ASR website and it's your decision.

@amir_asr 

All I have to do is make one product louder than the other and get you to say it sounds better even if you were primed to think it wouldn't.  And indeed, it can sound massively better with more detail, blacker backgrounds, etc. 

Yet, if I match levels that difference instantly disappears.  

Quite true, but until it's been demonstrated it will be difficult to understand.

I used to compare different masterings of the some favourite albums and was surprised to find many of the initial 'night and day' differences more or less disappeared once I'd matched the sound levels.

It's exactly like many of those optical illusions where what you see and what actually is appear to be at odds.

@mahgister 

Our brain Amir is not primary in the job of "fabricating facts" he put us in relation to reality to begin with, if it was otherwise we will not have survives his tricking  illusions.

Are you certain of this?

Could it not be that the job of the brain is to ensure our survival and a strict adherence to the laws of physical reality is not necessarily a key requisite?

A headful of delusions does not particularly appear to stop many people from living long lives.

The propagation of mass delusion has been a keen weapon in the hands of those who would seek to exploit and abuse us, has it not?

One that has worked extremely well so far, has it not?

It's quite easy to lose sight of the fact that we as audiophiles are a tiny minority of the human race.

A tiny minority that often can't seem to agree over the most trivial matters.

Sometimes not even in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence that has not been bought or bribed in some way.

@nicsadler

I find this hostility toward Amir more than shocking. Some of the accusations here border on the libelous and certainly do not reflect reality.

....

I find it very hard to understand how Amir is being so consistently attacked when he appears to be offering a perspective with very clearly marked boundaries. Many accusations here are without any merit or grace.

Unfortunately, as we have seen all too often through history, as soon as some people see their vested interests being attacked they will readily resort to hostility when some of us might prefer dignified discourse.

Sheer naked greed is the root of many an evil.

10,000 years of civilization has really done very little to change the nature of the beast.

As much as I’d like to see myself and my fellow audiophiles as being a little better than that, far too many times some of the responses here lapse into rudeness and even vulgarity.

Evolution moves surely but slowly.

By the way, did anyone mention peace talks regarding the situation in Ukraine between the Globalists and the Russians?

I thought not.

@amir_asr 

"Ultimately we don't know how a recording is supposed to sound like."

Such an unprepossessing sentence and yet one that threatens to undermine the entire audiophile industry.

If anyone is so affected I apologize for drawing attention to it.

@mahgister 

I'm also sorry to hear of your loss.

I hope it wasn't as traumatic as it sounds.

@amir_asr 

In sharp contrast, no one knows the tonality of anything produced in creation of music.  That brightness in music may be part of it, or may be your speaker.  You don't know.

...

There is some hope here.  As long as we all rally around neutral speakers, then we can reduce the level of confusion and lack of consistency.  This is slowly happening as even low cost speakers are striving for this now. 

In a nutshell, that's why the work done by yourself and others of a similar persuasion is absolutely vital to the future wellbeing of the whole audio industry.

At some point we may want to finally get off the 'upgrade' roundabout and settle down to just enjoying music without the constant nagging feeling that there might be something better out there.

Your work and the subsequent presentation of data in determining the genuinely better from the merely different can help us make that decision.

You should be proud of the difference you have already made inside a comparatively short time.

Please keep up the good work and perhaps consider working alongside manufacturers. I know some of them are actually happy to discuss your findings and may even use them as feedback for their own R&D.

In any case there must still be hundreds of loudspeakers that have yet to be put under the Klippel NFS.

Sadly, many high-end speakers go their own way with at times abominable tonality.

I doubt there's a single person here who has not heard an example of this for themselves. Some of the most expensive loudspeakers at shows are often the most difficult to listen to.

I don't think it's usually deliberate either. It's probably one person's individual idea of what makes a great speaker and unfortunately after all of that hard work and dedication no one was able to tell them any different.

@asctim 

To my ears, straight stereo two speaker playback ALWAYS has a particular sound to it, a degradation of the tone of center panned sounds that's unmistakable. It's a particular effect, and like Amir says about dipole planar speakers, I find it tiresome. 

Yes, there are millions of systems like this.

I particularly recall hearing the Quad 2805s and feeling the same...and yet, some folks love these speakers.

Or could it also be that stereo recording itself is in some way a dilution of the textures of a recording?

There are certainly many recordings where I favour the mono version for exactly this reason.

@markwd

In any case, I have learned a great deal on ASR and recommend it highly. It provides an excellent counterpoint to vague assertions and hush-voiced listening reviews. Most interesting for me, however, is the internet culture role of how it is deconstructing the faith aspects of the audiophile subculture. We see that playing out here!

And not just here.

There’s unlikely to be a single person connected with audio playback who has not by now heard of ASR.

Both Amir and ASR get regularly namechecked by virtually every other YouTube channel these days.

Most interesting for me, however, is the internet culture role of how it is deconstructing the faith aspects of the audiophile subculture.

Yes, education and enlightenment is a key role of all online exchanges.

It’s far too easy for any newcomer to get bamboozled by all the misdirection of clever terminology and paraphernalia involved in this hobby of ours.

That old Not the 9 O’ Clock News sketch with Griff Rhys Jones and Rowan Atkinson tormenting the hapless Mel Smith on his first visit to a HiFi shop isn’t entirely irrelevant today.

https://youtu.be/DvswW6M7bMo

@fredrik222 

ignoring measurements puts you at a very expensive disadvantage. 

It certainly does.

It also brings to mind those wise words often attributed to Mark Twain

"The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read."