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Devore or Harbeths to replace my ESL63s?

I'm on the last stages of a speaker quest that has been quite difficult. For the last year I've had ESL 63s in a smallish room (14'8 x 11'10). I've got them to work extremely well for small scale ensembles, particularly jazz, and they also sound great with electronic music. But I can't give them enough space to image an orchestra, and they don't really rock (at least without Gradient sub-woofers, but that's another story...)

So after a long search, it's come down to either Harbeth or Devore for replacements. These have been my favourite contemporary speakers for years, so basically I've just spent a long time finding out what I already knew.

I previously owned Compact 7ES3 and enjoyed them, but found them unrefined in the soprano regio, and slightly muddy around the port output. The Monitor 30.1 is considerably smoother in the high frequencies and I find it a beautifully balanced speaker. It is the perfect size for my room, with one failing. It lacks the half octave of bass needed to give kick drums any force. I tried the new SHL5+ in my room but they are just too big for my room, sadly.

A friend of mine owns some Devore Nines. Very few people have Devores in the UK, but he has a fantastic system with VTL 2.5/150. It used to be that when I heard his system I would find the Compact 7s unlistenable for a couple of days. That changed with the ESL63s, but the Quads have an uneven combination of great strengths and severe limits in a small room.

So it's come down to either Harbeth M30.1, Devore Super 8, or Devore 88.

I have a second hand pair of the Super 8s at home at the moment. They are beautifully organic and draw you in to their world gradually. Other speakers I have at home have more immediate and crisp micro-detail (Harbeth P3ESR for example), but the Super 8s seem to put a root into the ground and claim the room as the proper place for their music making. Relax, they say, don't worry about the details, we will sort out your musical life.

I have only two reservations; first, they are quite lean in the mid-bass, especially in comparison to my friend's Nines, and this presents some limits with rock and electronic. Second, my system is optimised for Harbeths (and then for ESLs), and Devores would probably work better with lower powered, very refined valve amps. I don't get the same clarity that I get with Harbeths in my system.

I also have an option on some second hand 88s, but I have never heard them and I would have to buy blind. That is generally against my religion.

I guess the key question is; do I go with what I know (Monitor 30.1) or look to optimise my system gradually for the newcomers (Devore Super 8 or 88).

I'd be grateful for any thoughts from anyone who has compared the M30.1 with Devores in the same room, since that is what I can't do at the moment.

(My system details: the amps are Unison Research Unico Pre/DM. The sources are a Fletcher Omega Point 5/Audio Note Arm/Nagaoka MP500, Trichord Diablo/NCPSU). Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete with AS modded CD Transport.)
andreweast
act4music
2 posts
 
Forget both of those and go for the JansZen hybrid electrostatic speakers. These are superb speakers that give an incredibly natural and very clear sound. It is as if the performers are right in front of you in the room. Go to www.soundsetup.co.uk and have a look and also google Janszen Loudspeaker for reviews. These speakers are designed by David JansZen, in the USA and he is the son of Arthur Janszen, the designer of the very first commercially electrostatic speaker.

The beauty of the Janszen ESLs is that they can be placed right back against a wall so will go where other ESLs just cannot possibly go. They are ideal for smaller rooms as well as large ones. They are unique in that they fire forwards only which is the reason they do not need to be placed out into the room. Just launched are some very compact stand mount ESLs which are quite unique called zA1.1

ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
If he's into the Harbeth sound I'd really doubt he'd be into a stat. I personally have yet to hear a stat that I could live with. Most ribbons drive me nuts too for many reasons. I'm only heard a handful that I like and they have been very expensive to do it right. I have a ton of friends who love the panels type speakers, but have no use for the Harbeth's or any box speaker. Different tastes.
act4music
2 posts
 
The JansZens are like hearing no speaker at all. Cabinet cone speakers do have their own distinctive sounds due to coloration but the JansZens are as natural a sound as you could wish for. Have you heard the JansZens?
andreweast OP
30 posts
 
Well Ctsooner, you may have noticed from my OP that I've been living with stats for a year, and I love them in many ways. However my ESL63s have limits that I've been trying to overcome. One of those limits is that they have difficulties imaging an orchestra when they are pushed to close to each other, and in my room there is not much space between them, and I'm quite close to them.

Earlier this week I heard some Vivid 1.5 again. I heard the little V1s a while ago and liked their smooth but extended, rich and open sound. They didn't have much bass so I asked to hear the slightly larger 1.5. Curiously they didn't satisfy me when I first heard them - there was a nasal edge at the upper register of saxophones that annoyed me. It turned out this pair had a defect in the crossover, so I went back and heard a good pair this week. Very smooth this time, and perhaps the closest to the combined naturalism and speed of the ESL63s I've heard in a modest 2 way box speaker.

But, I reflected, I had heard the M30.1 sound just as open, smooth, and extended with a soprano sax, and have perhaps more guts with a tenor. And all in all, I suspect the M30.1 might have as much all round resolution.

So the next phase. Yesterday I borrowed some Monitor 30 from a friend locally. Not 30.1 - the old version. It's been a few years since I've heard them. My first impression was great - a homecoming at last! But after a day I'm not so sure. They are surprisingly muscular and assertive after smooth speakers like ESL63s and Devore Super 8s, and indeed my Harbeth HL5s. And they feel so much bigger and more effortful than my P3s. They don't have the ease and naturalism of the SHL5+.

And yet I heard the M30.1 twice recently in a room smaller than my own and found them beautifully poised, without any hint of being too assertive.

Can the 30.1 be so different to its predecessor? Or is my room more live, or are my amps more assertive, than I had imagined?

I now have good options on ex-demo M30.1, Vivid V1.5, and also (another contender), Sonus Faber Olympica 2 (although I suspect these are too big for my room).

I suspect the Janszen demo is going to have to wait until the New Year now. Heavens, give me patience... patience I need...
ctsooner
2,480 posts
 
Andrew, at least you are listening to find what you like. I hate hearing folks just buying and selling... It keeps the site going, but it's not what high end audio should become IMHO...at least I hope it's not like that. I do wish you could have had a chance to listen to the Vandersteens as well as a few others as there are just a ton of great choices at this price range.
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