Hey Blindjim,
Glad you are back up and running.
Glad you are back up and running.
Devor - KEF - Vienna Acoustic – Wilson?
Hello all!
KEF Blade IIe, Devor Gibbon X, VA Listz, WAS Sabrina.
These are not the top items on the short list, but they sure do make a lot of sense and keep occupying my ‘spend thrift’ thoughts for speaker system solutions, among a couple others. I listed them in alphabetical order, not necessarily in order of personal preference.
These loudspeakers seem as diverse as they are similar in cost to performance ratios given the subjective press they have recieved.
With the exception of the Sabrina and Gibbon X, Numbers are fairly even across the board with their sensitivity, and impedance. in terms of size and weights, respectively they appear close there too. Except for the Blade II, pricing is close as well.
Designs differ and esthetics are all seemingly very nice to outstanding.
I’m asking here for any experiences someone might have with any of these speaker’s individual voices, house sounds, and esthetics, if or where applicable.
I’m simply trying to cut down the list for which ones really deserve going out of the way to audition. Or wait for in terms of build, or possibly buying used.
Although I could definitely go either way powerwise, tubes or SS, tubes are ordinarily a preference. It does depend on the speaker’s ‘voice’ and voltage needs/demands, however.
If anyone would be so kind as to add their thoughts on any of these choices unique characteristics that would be amazing.
Examples:
Demands great up stream components. Difficult to place? Needs loads of breathing room? Limited in the bottom octave (s) ?
Neutrality? Hot up top? Warm? Dark? Loose bottom end? Transparency? Imaging? Limited depth? Etc.
Hard to drive? Not normally tube friendly? Stay away from SS?
Tremendous gratitude for any insights. Thanks much.
Showing 9 responses by pokey77
@blindjim KEF Blade Two comments – Jim, I took part of the following comments from another
thread I was in back in June. --I heard the Hegel 360 at the Los Angeles Audio
Show and it was very good; considerably better than the Rost although the Rost
was pretty good too. They performed comparison tests between the Rost, H360, and
their reference separates. The 360 was fairly close to the separates and it and
the Rost have built-in DACs; the H360 is also 250 WPC. The demo speaker was the KEF
Blade Two. I liked the Hegel sound. –I can also say that of the Blade Two;
very even tonally with a bit of pop and sparkle. Though I liked them a lot, I
took them off my list because they are $25k. But I also took them off because I
like the Sabrina’s better. One observation is I’ve read that the Blade can be
tough if you are close to sidewalls because of the side-mounted woofers. I
think the Audio Doctor guys in New York have plenty to say about the Blade here in the Agon
forums if I remember correctly. Of course, on my last two comments, your mileage may vary. |
@blindjim, I most recently heard the Wilson Sabrina's last weekend with the new Nagra Classic Amp (SS) with the Nagra Classic Preamp (tube). The other equipment was Transparent Cables/PCs/power conditioning and the dCS Debussy DAC playing thru Tidal. It was a very good for sure. Very revealing, nice pace, and very non-fatiguing over the four hours the system was in use. I have heard the Sabrina's a number of times and they've mostly been paired with ARC gear, which also sounds very good. I've also heard them with D'Agostino Momentum Monos/Pre a few years back, which I considered very good and have more recently heard them with an Arcam integrated with room correction (not as good as any of the other electronics I've mentioned previously). I very much like the Sabrina's and the Nagra worked very well with them. While I was there the Nagra Classic Amp was compared to the D'Agostino Classic Stereo Amp. I preferred the Nagra Classic Amp for its finesse and tactilness. The Dag was very iron-fisted (read bass controll) and overall less involving. Funny how a 40 lb. amp sounded better to me than a 108 lb behemoth. Weight, implementation, etc are all factors, but for me, the sound is the most important. The Nagra equipment is not inexpensive. The amp is approximately $20k and the preamp around $16k. The Debussy is about $11k and the cables I have no idea. But I can say that this was a system that played very well for me. Some people deride dCS for it being to sterile. For me, I don’t remember hearing dCS before last weekend but thought that these pieces played complementary roles. It was very musical to me. Jim, you said "but I’m sold on one not needing incredibly expensive speakers to reveal “Wow!” listening sessions". This is what this Sabrina/Nagra/dCS system did for me. But I've also heard the Sabrina's with ARC and felt the same. I hope to hear them with the T+A HV series integrated and multi source player. I've read that this combo works very well together but have not heard it yet. Hope to do so in November. |
@blindjim To add to my prior posts, the room I heard the Sabrina's in last weekend is 15.5 wide, 25.5 deep, and 9.5 high. It was also very well damped and the power is also well sorted out. The room was fully pressurized while music was playing. In addition to the digital music vinyl was also played. It was glorious as well. I was given the remote and pushed the Nagra Classic Amp and it never lost one bit of composure. The volume at times was turned up to the 2 O'clock position and there was no compression, breakup, etc. The amp has a small power meter "Nagra Modulometer" and an Orange LED, which "is also fitted to indicate saturations, excessive temperature." I had it turned up quite a bit to see how it would fair and the only indications I got for this is massive crystalline dynamics and the Orange LED blinking some times. Even when blinking, there was no change at all in the sound. After experiencing this several times I realized it was much louder than I initially thought. And it was oh so pleasant at any volume level. There was never any "crackle" as you mentioned above; but snap and pop were definitely there in the room. A very lively and invigorating sound. It never got boring even after four hours. The amp runs fairly warm when in play and just warm to the touch when idling. The Nagra Classic Amp and Classic Preamp look to be fairly new products. I like them but in the end I think they are out of my range, at least new and retail. One great thing about these components is they aren't gargantuan in size or weight; amp is 40 lbs and the preamp is just 11 lbs. I have read a lot good about Vienna Acoustics but do not ever remember hearing them. If I'm not mistaken, Guido Corona has The Music. The Liszt looks like a real deal at $15k. I also have not heard the Devore Gibbon Xs (at least as far as I can remember). But they, like the X, have an advantage of having several bass drivers - two nine-inch woofers in this case. Would like to hear them. $16k puts them right in there with the others mentioned. Do like they appear to be easier to drive. Finally, as I've talked about before, I've been to many audio shows in the last 3-4 years. That to say that it is possible I've heard one or both of these speakers in the past. If I walk into a room and it makes my ears hurt OR conversely there's no snap, I don't hang around long. Just because all this high-end speakers are positioned in a room does not mean that they are paired with the right gear or that the person who set them up got it right. Maybe I'll get to hear them at some point. And of course, YMMV. Have fun with the hunt. |
@blindjim Jim, totally agree with you on top notch electronics enabling average speakers to sound "outstanding". I've heard it a few times and have realized that to short change yourself on quality components just short changes you on sound. @steventoney Thanks for coming in and providing your insight. Much appreciated. Looking forward to hearing more about the Gibbon Xs. |
@blindjim Hey Jim, I've heard several Prima Luna integrateds: the Prologue Classic and the Dialogue Premium HP. Both are quite good. Check out this thread for tons of comments. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/considering-switching-from-audio-research-to-primaluna-troube... Enjoy reading all the comments but look for Kevin's comments (upscaleaudio). As you'll notice from reading the thread, I was at this shoot out. There were three integrateds in the shootout: the Prologue Classic, Dialogue Premium HP, and an Audio Research Vsi75. In a blind test, I chose the Dialogue Premium HP with the ARC a very close second. In fact, they all three sounded much more similar than they did different. The three integrateds were played through Sopra 2s and it was the first time that I've heard that speaker sound good. If you have any questions, LMK. |
@blindjim blindjim - "tubes usually make so so sounding speakers sound far better" Pokey77 - I have heard the Sopra 2s with tubes a few times and solid state alot. I think it was Rogue tubes if I recall correctly. In any event, it was very analytical and shrill. I don't think any electronics could put the Sopra 2s in my wheelhouse. But who knows? blindjim - "During the shoot out, did Kevin ever stop talking?" Pokey77 - Actually, he just described what he was doing with setup, what the system consisted of, and then would leave the room while we listened to each of the three integrateds. He neither tried to influence the attendees or foist a sales pitch on us. It was very fair. After the shootout was over, he pulled the covers and showed us the internal parts. He did point out what items were in each component but did not try to sway our opinion of build quality; he let us each do that on our own. In the end, the two PL products were very musical and they essentially sounded like the twice-as-expensive ARC product. And you know I love ARC gear. blindjim - "Although, until the power amp can fully embrace the speaker satisfying its needs fully, the best that speaker has to offer isn’t gonna be heard…. IMHO." You are absolutely correct. As I mentioned before. My most recent demo was Sabrina's with Nagra Classic Amp/Pre + dCS Debussy DAC. Also substituted the D'Agostino Classic Stereo amp in the same system. With the DAG it seemed as if the bass was over damped and lost it's texture. With the lower-powered Nagra both my friend and I felt the music and speaker was better served. I don't think that the Sabrina's needed all the control the DAG could give. I think the PL option is a very good choice. I'd go with the Dialogue Premium HP if PL is found to synergize with your speaker choice. It was very good. Would make a killer office setup but I can tell you the PL stuff runs plenty hot; Kevin did mention that PL stuff runs the tubes very lighlty vs. most of the competition. You may have seen the story where a PL integrated was left on for at least six months. Kevin had him send in the tubes and they tested at 90%. The proof seems to be in the pudding. I'd like to hear the Gibbon X and the new Super Nine. Hoping to see some comments show up here on the 'Gon soon. Happy Sunday and happy search Jim |
@blindjim Check this thread out if you have not already. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vienna-acoustics-liszt-fad-or-future I think all three amps were playing in the same mode to keep the contest equal. I believe Kevin talked about it but I've forgotten. "If you aren’t careful you’re gonna talk yourself into those Sabrinas." Right now it is between them and the smaller MBLs. MBL is what got me to really consider buying a new system. I've just had many more chances to hear the Sabrina's than the MBLs in the last year or two. "My satisfaction will come from attaining what I believe music sounds like. Period." That is my goal. I'm just hoping to make one last move that gets me as close as possible to that. |