@oddiofyl Don't do it- that sort of thing leads to fire.
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There won't be any directionality if the fuse is used in an AC circuit. Its really really hard to see how such a fuse could then be used in a DC circuit and impart any directionality whatsoever. I'd love to see the explanation on that one!!
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FWIW we have gotten good reports on some of the boutique fuses from our customers. No-one has ever asked about directionality, and all our fuse positions are AC circuits. Since AC has to go in both directions, it follows that directionality is impossible. In fact, if the fuse were in any way directional, it would heat up and fail almost instantly!
IOW the directionality thing is a myth.
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I read somewhere that only the direction of the ac [in a fuse...or power
cord for that matter] towards the business end of the component[what is
heard] is of any value in directional break-in ,hence, the reason there
is directionality in a fuse used in an ac circuit is because of the
cycle going to... and not fro. For what its worth,it sounds plausible. There can be reasons why a cable has directionality (mostly having to do with how the shield is constructed; this has nothing to do with fuses). But this bit: "the reason there
is directionality in a fuse used in an ac circuit is because of the
cycle going to... and not fro." - is a false statement (and is false because AC does indeed go "to and fro", if it does not, its called 'DC'). Therefore its not plausible that a fuse can be directional, and anyone telling you otherwise is trying to sell something and is hoping you are gullible enough to not see the fraud. To understand the fraud that is happening here, you first have to understand that in an AC circuit, the voltage drop across the component has to be the same in both directions. Otherwise one of two things will happen, both governed by Ohm's Law: either the component will heat up (as in the case of an electrolytic capacitor when reverse biased by half of the AC current flow; this will cause it to heat up and explode) or rectification will occur (as in the case of a power rectifier, which can conduct in one direction but not the other- this BTW is how AC is converted to DC). So if a fuse is directional (entertaining that impossibility for a moment) that means that it will have a resistance value of x in one direction (some fraction of an Ohm) and in the other direction the resistance will be x plus something more. The idea is of course ridiculous, as if this were the case, the additional voltage drop in the higher impedance direction would cause the fuse to heat up with eventual failure. This is Ohm's Law we're dealing with here- its a simple formula and can't be violated without creating a new branch of physics. So if anyone tells you that fuse direction make a difference, either they are grossly misinformed or just outright lying. It really is that simple. |
Fuse directionality is not something exclusive to only high-end fuses. I
found that even cheaper fuses have a preferred direction. One way to
find out is to look at the cap ends with a magnifying glass. I found
that the majority will have the power rating stamped on one end, and the
other will usually have an assortment of symbols. Yes, I found the OEM
fuses even sound better in one direction, but not the same as the
high-end ones. I have the Hi-Fi Supreme fuses. Before plunging, I
tried ceramic fuses of the same rating as the OEM. They sounded a bit
smoother than the OEM. I simply diagrammed on a paper the direction
using the cap's indicators. So far, its been consistent for each fuse.
They key is, one direction will sound smoother in comparison.
What you are most likely hearing is the warm-up of the unit after its been powered down in order to replace the fuse. I think you will find that this is repeatable, regardless of which direction the fuse is installed. This is an excellent example of expectation bias. @georgelofi , +1 |
No, actually it can’t be expectation bias or warming up of the
component, inadvertently scraping off the dirt or oxide from the fuse
holder or even placebo effect. We’ve already been over that. Well actually it totally can be; just because 'We've already been over that' (which 'We' haven't by any means) does not make it so. Some more gullible types might be taken in by that though. Occam's Razor applies- the complex explanation being the one you often give; expectation bias or warmup- both being **much** simpler explanations. Otherwise simply must be ready for the sale on bridges in Brooklyn. Just in case there is any issue here- most of these fuses are simply gold-plated versions of exactly the same fuse that you can buy off the shelf. The element does not get treated- its the gold on the ends that gets added. So there is no mechanism to allow for directionality. |
The nonsense that it is AC current going through them is obviously wrong. tbg, are you suggesting that fuses don't have AC current going through them? Just a FWIW for you: real engineers have to by definition also be scientists. If we abandoned the scientific principle it would be impossible to design and build anything. |
As a long time manufacturer of amplifiers and pre- amplifiers I hope you
will share in detail the feedback your customers have conveyed to you
concerning which fuses improved the sound and which did not. So far all the comments we have received on boutique fuses have been positive. However for all those comments, not one of them has mentioned anything about directionality. The feedback we have goes back about to about 2006 or so when the fuses seemed to move from the automotive stereo community to high end audio. |
Chances are good any customers who know you doesn’t wish to irritate you by bringing up fuse directionality. ;-)
This statement is false. Our customers are quite eager to supply feedback and we pay attention to it. |
When a manufacturer marks it’s fuses with directional arrows it means
they believe their fuses are uh, directional. When a manufacturer
publishes detailed measurement data that shows differences in resistance
depending on direction of the fuse it means the manufacturer believes
fuses are directional. Incorrect. They don't mark the fuse with arrows indicating its directionality, they mark it with a logo that is easily confused. This is done to buy into the myth that fuses are directional, and thus they sell more fuses. There is no directional data that exists, at least none that can be verified by independent test. @georgelofi , +1 |
I hate to speak before all the facts are in but it kind of appears that
you are the only one confused by the symbol that looks pretty much like
an arrow. What makes matters worse for your position is that the HiFi
Tuning fuses actually sound considerably better when the arrow thingie
is pointed in the right direction. At least that’s what people who have
actually heard the HiFi Tuning fuses say. Furthermore Isoclean has
actual, you know, arrows that should not be so darn confusing on their
fuses. Have for twenty years. The test data sheets on the HiFi Tuning
web site are actually from an independent testing facility. Hel-loo! As
it turns out you have apparently bought into the old wives take that
fuses are not directional.
Well, the facts **are** in. The symbol to which I refer is a stylized diode symbol (its not an arrow; that one was good for some laughs around here) bypassed by a capacitor. However it is really a stylization which is why I used the word 'logo'. Measurements of the fuse show no diode characteristics (and as Thom just pointed out as I did a couple of pages earlier, if it did have such effect, it would fail quite quickly in an AC application) nor any capacitive effects. Further, if there was a diode effect, in one direction it might not work at all. Disassembly of the fuse shows it to be constructed in a way similar if not identical to other commercially available fuses (a ceramic tube with a lightweight wire fuse element within; FWIW the wire appears to be damped by a lightweight insulation, presumably to limit or damp the motion that otherwise can be observed in many fuses when current is applied. Its likely that this insulation is the primary improvement, more important than the plated ends. These fuses were originally imported by a customer of ours, who sent samples to us. He never at any time indicated anything about them being directional. The directional aspect is clearly a made-up story not supported by fact or for that matter, the past or current importer. It is supported only by expectation bias; anyone who really wants to get to the bottom of it will find that if they try reversing the fuse again after finding the 'favorable' direction, will find a similar benefit in the other direction. That is if they keep an open mind. Any supposition that the fuse is directional is mistaken, any commercial entity that attempts to convince others that this is so is engaging in fantasy. If a fuse really were directional, it would have inherently inferior properties compared to a non-directional fuse. And again, our customers do report positive results using this and similar fuses. About this they are quite adamant! None of them have reported any directional characteristics, and since the inception of this thread, several have made a point to us that auditioning them in either direction has had a null result. |
I’m going to develop and market an audiophile grade bi-directional fuse
and nip this thing in the bud. With this product, IT WON’T MATTER AND
THERE WILL BE NO UNCERTAINTY! :-)
We've already got one! 27 years ago we recognized that fuses can affect the way our equipment sounds. At the time, there were no boutique fuses, but we sorted out a fuse that in fact did sound better, and designed the sheet metal for our MA-2 to accommodate it. We still use this fuse today; interestingly enough it sounds better than the boutiques we've tried and it does not cost as much, although its not a cheap fuse by any means. However it must be built pretty well as reversing it in the holder has no audible effect whatsoever. 27 years- does that make us one of the first manufacturers to recognize this phenom? I think it does. |
PS for Atmasphere: time to catch up to the 21st century. A lot has
happened in those 27 years. We have quantum chips and everything! ;-) Yes, the quantum chips are a hoax. |
Uh, problem is its not his experience,. Its just the old ivory tower academic type thing in action.
No- its the willingness to acknowledge that people hear something (the 'ivory tower' type would have written it off as expectation bias or swamp gas), and then find out why. |
Tbg you're right, there are numerous observable phenomenon yet to be explained by our current knowledge of physics. This is true, but if you've not tried to correlate that voltage drop across the fuse and its holder, you don't know if a simple explanation is the cause. IOW assuming that what you hear is due to some sort of woo factor without trying a simple measurement is likely going to result in an incorrect conclusion.
I
know physics has not totally mastered natures laws, so you cannot say
there is no physical explanation in EE for why fuses would differ.
This statement seems self-contradictory. Is this really what you meant to say?? |
