Denon DL-103 -- Was it a mistake?

03-10-09: Viridian
Second, the 640P was a bad match with the 103 in my system. The brightness at the top of the Denon's midrange not matching well with the upper midrange brightness of the 640P.

Boy, I'll second that. I had a persistent low level midrange glare in my rig that I'd learned to live with, figuring it was the combination of a Technics DD turntable, the AT150MLX, or both.

Then I decided to plug the turntable's interconnects directly into the phono stage in my Onkyo integrated amp and the glare disappeared. In its place was a new wealth of low level detail translating into lushness, warmth, the bloom and decay of notes, both within the instruments and in the venues in which they were recorded.

I don't think the 640P is up to the task. It may take a better phono stage plus a step-up device optimized for the DL-103 to bring out the Denon's best.

This Denon AU-300 LC MC may not be the last word in stepup devices, but it's a match for the DL-103, and it has Denon's economy of scale going for it. You still need a phono stage, but only an MM one.

If you are handy with a soldering iron, it's not difficult to add some resistance to a non-adjustable phono input when dealing with MC cartridges. The easiest way is to get a 2 RCA female -> 1 RCA male adapter, and plug that in at your phono input.

Then add resistance with an RCA male plug and resistors in parallel with your load (across + and - on the RCA plug). It's a fairly simple soldering operation. Ideally you would create a few "loading RCA's" so you can swap out resistance to define your needs and determine if, indeed, there is a problem that points to improper loading.

Plug the loading RCAs into one Female input, plug your arm leads into the other. db Systems used to sell a kit of a dozen or so RCAs set up like this with resistance (for MC) and capacitance (for MM).

It might be helpful to check out this url, although it's geared to the specific transformer, which affects the choice of resistor for a given desired loading when using a transformer.

http://www.kandkaudio.com/mccartsetup.html

Vinyl Addict, i had a 2M Black with a Rega RB700 and I currently have a Zu 103R/Wood body 103R on a Thomas Schick tonearm. i'll take the latter. the 2m cartridge is great but did not present the music with the realistic palpability and sonic density as the latter combos. PRaT was the same. Additionally, I tend to think the Dynavector cartridges were better in PRaT than these two Denons but that could be a fallacy encouraged by the Dynas lighter presentation. The sound density of the Dynas is lacking compared to the Ortofons and Denons.

What tonearm did you use? As stated by many others, I think this is a crucial issue.

Gordguide:

This seems like a great idea, but I'm not sure I follow exactly what you are saying. Are you saying that essentially you get an RCA "splitter" for each channel, and in one plug you plug in your cable coming from the TT, and in the other you plug in the loading RCAs?

Also, I assume the "loading plugs" would be male-male, so that you could easily solder both ends of the resistor to the + and - ends of the male plug.

I have had both the 103 and the virtuoso at the same time. They are very different cartridges. I always preferred the virtuoso but that is a matter of taste. It will take you a while to get used to the 103 sound if you were fond of your virtuoso. To get the 103 to sound really good you will have to spend some money on a good sut and then see if you like it with the cambridge. Personally although the 103 is a pretty good unit I think you can do way better for not much money.

I assume by "sut" you mean step up transformer. That really isn't an option at the moment, as I only purchased the 103 as a temporary replacement for the Virtuoso. I think that even with the 103 put in an ideal setup, I would still prefer the Virtuoso. Therefore it really isn't worth investing more money at the moment to get the 103 to sound good. I would like to try Gordguide's loading method with the Cambridge, but I'm not entirely clear on how that is done yet.

I agree they are very different sounding carts. I think the 103 definitely has potential, but I could not tolerate the brightness in my system. The Ortofon 2M Red is starting to sound pretty decent in my system now. It isn't fully run in yet, but it sounds more "musical" than the 103. Of course it lacks a great bit of detail by comparison.

You may not need a step up with the cambridge but you will have to mess with the loading most likely. Ive had my 103 for many years and have found it really needs the right tonearm and step up and loading to work properly. After spending the time and money to sort it out I found it wasnt my cup of tea as I gravitate more towards the clearaudio sound. I think the speakers you use have a lot to do with it also which explains why many listeners have a completely different experience with this cart.

03-27-09: Jwglista
I assume by "sut" you mean step up transformer. That really isn't an option at the moment, as I only purchased the 103 as a temporary replacement for the Virtuoso.

With the painful acknowledgement that I'm too late, I think the AT150MLX would have been a much better substitute than the DL103--it's another high performing MM cartridge (with replaceable stylus, no less).

4mV output, great speed, dynamic range, detail, and body; compliance in the customary range so tonearm mass matching is easy; high output, so no fuss, no muss.

Jwglista... I think you would have been better off with the dl 160, or 110, or a decent mm cart, the 103 really wants a step up..... I think there is a synergy inherent with step up transformers and LOMC's.... and this is what folks seem to 'rave' about. Regardless,' one man's cup of tea ', etc. etc.
I had a wealth of problems similar to the ones you are describing with my first dl 103, and it took a bunch of fuss, trial and error,and help from others to finally make it sing! If you want to sell on the 103, let me know, it's always nice to have a back-up. I have a dl 110 sitting around doing nothing that I can 'extended loan' to you if you want to give that a try while you wait for your Virtuoso. Harv.

Rccc:
I think that if I were to spend time and money getting my 103 to sound "right" just as you did, I would end up coming to the same conclusion. The 103 and Virtuoso just seem like they are based on totally different philosophies of sound. But just having owned the cartridge now, I'm very curious as to how it would sound in an ideal setup.

Johnnyb53:
I appreciate the suggestion nonetheless. I've heard great things about that cart, so it no doubt sounds good. $300 is probably more than I would have spent on a replacement cart (although combining the price of my 103 with the 2M Red puts me pretty close to $300).

I'm enjoying the sound of the 2M Red quite a bit. If there was one thing I could do without, it would be its exaggerated midrange sound. Instruments like trumpets can sound a bit harsh at times.

The Compliance-weight relationship is closer to ideal for the 2M and the Clearaudio arm than it is for the 103 - so even though the 2M Red is a more modest cartridge - it should sound a lot better without having to tweak it. And the 2M Red probably still has a little breaking in to do. With that said, it is never going to sound quite like your Virtuoso.

Well I remounted the Denon to try some loading plugs that I made. I actually learned that doing this will actually *lower* the load resistance on the Cambridge. For example, since the loading of the Cambridge is 100 ohms, if I add 100 ohm resistors in parallel, I am actually lowering the total resistance to 50 ohms. I noticed that by doing this, the sound gets more "deep" into the soundstage, dynamics are smoother, but at the same time less exciting. I didn't notice much difference in the treble. However, when I mounted the cartridge this time, I made the tail end of the tone arm a tad up instead of way down as it was before, and this seems to have surprisingly helped the sound a lot. Ultimately I'm leaving the loading at the default 100 ohms. To *increase* that number, I'd have to physically open the unit, remove the 100 ohm resistor, and put something else in. If I were to do this, I would put in a 10,000 ohm resistor, then use plugs to tone it down. But I will say that I am growing to like the DL-103 a bit more. I am getting used to its sound, although it does still sound just a tad bright in my system. This may change as I put even more hours on it.

Sorry for not replying Jwglista but it seems you've figured it out anyway.

These cartridges are incredible but will not even begin to tell you what they can do until 50 hours in and sound best at 100 plus hours. Many modifications available which vaults their performance even further.

Load at 400 to 500 ohms unless you are stuck with a SUT.