Denon 3910 Universal Player - Opinions?

I've had a 3910 for three days and have let it run 24 hours a day playing various media types since then. In all honesty and to my surprise the Denon is sounding quite respectable even when the stock power cord is in use.

This player surprised me in how it has a seemingly realistic tone/timbre - whereas instruments, vocals, etc. seem closer to natural vs. heavy/weighted or thin/transparent.

Perhaps my semi-delight is due to the fact that I was expecting the hollow & mechanical sound of earlier vintage Sony DVD/SACD players. And I didn't get that with the Denon.

I usually base the performance of a CDP on how it makes me feel (emotionally) vs. how much it lets me hear (in some respects). The highest end CDP's convey a sense of presence, sensuality, and degree of soul to music which is as difficult to describe in words as it is to find in cheap(er) sub-2000 players.

That said (wrote), the Denon does not make me feel all that great. It does not completely convey the soul of music like higher end players - and does not draw me in...

BUT it DOES scratch the surface... there is potential.

There are a lot of areas where the Denon could be considered quite good - bass, tonality, soundstage, texture, pace, etc. However, for me the number one audible shortcoming of this player and the #1 reason why it fails to convey the soul of music is its lack of dimensional tangibility. Musical images are there but they just don't have the sensuality or lust to be mistaken as real - and therefore draw a listener into the music.

*I* am hopeful that (when available), modifications to this unit will take it to another (much higher) level.

Not sure what gear you're familiar with so I'll use some common units to compare to:

SACD performance is not as good as Marantz SA-1 or Sony SCD-1, better than Marantz SA-14, XA-777ES.

Redbook is good but not great on this unit. My guess is that ANY player you can get for over 2K used will destroy this player.

DVD Video Performance is as good as it gets or as good as you are.... What I mean is, there are so many adjustments to the picture that you can make it look however you want. It has brightness, contrast, mid-sharpness, high-sharpness, CRC (whatever that is), chroma enhancing, chroma-delay, white level, black level, vertical digital enhancement, horizontal digital enhancement, digital correction, and about 20 levels of Gamma correction. There are most likely more settings. Those are the ones I could remember off the top of my head.

For component video output, I imagine this is as good as any top level DVD player is or will be. I do not have HDMI or DVI on my TV but guess that the upconversion to 780p and 1080p through those connections would allow the Denon to show its TRUE colors.

DVD sound is pretty good too. It made my HT system with cheap Sony digital amp sound much better.

Haven't tried DVD-A or MP3 or JPG

hope this helps

Hi Srama - you might give the 3910 a try if you can negotiate an in-home demo.

Hi Sean - Originally I had intended to buy a 2900 to have it modified by John Tucker but... I am really, really tired of getting the "best" player only to have it superceded by the next best thing. So... I went for the 3910 knowing that John Tucker had just started working on mods for the unit.

I've never listened to the 2900 so I cannot comment. I have however read the AVS Forum where folks who own both the 3910 and the 2900 seem to believe the stock 3910 exceeds the performance (sound and video) of the stock 2900.

The latest review of the Exemplar modified Denon 2900 on the 6moons website is exciting - makes me very hopeful about upcoming mods for the 3910.

Sorry I don't know more about the 2900. Perhaps the AVS Forum DVD section may give you some additional insight.

Uva - To me there is no question that the SA-1 is far superior in all regards to the SA-14. For someone to prefer the sound of the SA-14 to the SA-1 would be like someone preferring a McDonalds Hamburger patty to Prime Rib. I guess its possible.

I read the same reviews and user comments on Audio Asylum prior to buying a SA-14 myself and all I can say is its I was misled. Sounds like you were too.

Ears - interesting. I've read the AVS Forum and found mostly stuff like this:

The 3910 seems to be different though. I tested the 480P output on my plasma using chapter 22 of A Bug's Life. If a player has the MB issue, it is readily apparent in this scene. With the 3910 feeding the plasma via component out at 480P there was little to nothing in the way of MB. The results were far better then what I had seen with any of the other infected players.

From what *I* can tell its only the user "PooperScooper" who is having difficulties with the player.

I haven't noticed any problems with the player. Can you tell us perhaps what Macroblocking is?

Ears - The folks on Audiogon are audiophiles whereas and the folks on AVS (bless their hearts) are not. I believe they are more or less videophiles. So...their comments as they pertain to audio, are taken with a grain of salt.

On this site, the excitement behind the Denon players is a result of the improvements which can be made through modification. For example, the Denon 2900 modified by Exemplar Audio often gets compared to EMM Labs, and Reimyo players. - The fact that the modified Denon player is good enough to strike up a debate like that is astonishing.

Regarding your comments on manufacturing. Well... For what its worth. Some of the most advanced manufacturing on the planet takes place in China. And yes.. it's as you put it, "cheap". This means that companies who manufacture in China can cram more technology, engineering and features into a device that costs less for consumers.

I know you intended the comment "cheaply built Chinese made" to be a negative slam against Denon but - the truth is, those words are not as derogatory as they may once have been. Think about it.

Thanks for the info on Macroblocking. I looked up the term and I think I understand what it is - Here is an explanation from Perfect Vision

On a standard-definition DVD movie, the video bit-rate ranges from about 4Mbs (megabits per second) to 9Mbs, depending on the amount of motion in the scene. If you’ve ever seen a DVD with a fast action sequence in which the image suddenly becomes very blocky, that’s a sign that the data rate used at that moment wasn’t high enough to show all the detail in the fast motion (this artifact is called macroblocking).

Seems to me that this is a problem with the media (DVD) vs. a problem with the player itself.

Nothing against Onkyo but for some reason, no-one modifies these players so they have a rather limited potential thus far - as far as audio goes.

Looks like some people on AVS are having trouble with the Onkyo too. "head and toe room" clipping bug (whatever that is) - HDMI output not functioning.

User "PooperScooper" who likes the Onkyo & returned it will re-buy it when they fix the HDMI problems.

I don't know much about video but buying any of these DVD players seems like a crap shoot.

There are also a lot of bad things written about the Denon 2900 on that forum too. And... a lot of people - in their right minds have had them modified.

Seems like every component mentioned on that site has had negative comments made about it.

How about your experience with the HK DPR-2005?

Bummer - I couldn't find the comparison. On AVS, I noticed you've had 17 DVD players over a bit of time - that's very impressive and your knowledge is appreciated.

The Macroblocking thing: This seems weird to me because if it truly is the result of just the DCDI chip vs. the media, then every disc played through a unit with DCDI would have this problem. Common sense tells me this problem is a result of the DCDI in tandem with a certain (effected) or improperly mastered disc. Since DVD's cannot be "fixed" manufacturers of players issue firmware corrections where possible.

Here is some more stuff from AVS on the Onkyo/Integra locking up:

My Integra DPS 10.5 has a more advanced implementation of this same circuitry. It locks up on all of the above, but also freezes up on-

9 1/2 Weeks
Rat Race
Phantom Menace (but WILL play the pod race if I'm demo-ing for friends)
ANY Barbra Striesand movie, especially "Mirror has 2 faces"
Godzilla (1999)
The first 2 Project Greenlight movies

But that's what I paid the $$$ for

DVD and 2CH:
You know, I am starting to second guess the idea of having a DVD player connected to my 2CH system at all. When I connected everything, I started getting a hideous buzz which I presume was caused by the Satellite. I tried some voltage limiting transformers on the Satellite COAX - which seemed to solve the problem but then the receiver couldn't find the dish. Ground Loop Woes. Argh! I guess I'll eventually figure it out.

You know, players not reading SACD's, reading slowly and having trouble with certain discs is a problem that has been around ever since the very first SACD player was introduced. I've had just about every serious SACD unit and the only one which I do not recall having trouble with SACDs was the DVD-S9000ES. It may have, I just don't remember. Instead, my 9000ES had lip sync problems whereas the video was off-sync with the sound. Weird. All other SACD players have issues of one sort or another - no exceptions. The latest generation of universal players seem to be a lot better thus far - but I wouldn't be surprised if problems show up down the road when the lenses get a bit dusty.

Ears - You've lost your credibility.

No problems on the Onkyo/Integra? Sure. Anyhow, I like this guys reply to you (you go by Greg T) on Audio Asylum Joe Murphy JR He brings up some major problems with the Onkyo. He seems to be rather well informed.

What about the guy who had his lock up all the time, was he experiencing a "universal problem"?

What about the "head and toe room" clipping bug on the Onkyo or the "black-than-black bug"?

Quote from the now infamous AVS user PooperScooper regarding the SP1000.

If you use HDMI or component you wont have the black-than-black "bug" problem. If you use DVI you will get *incorrect* - not what was on the DVD - video at times. DLP needs all the help it can get with blacks too (compared to CRT). This bug does not help, it hurts. It's your money, but buying $2k or $2.5K player that does this does not make sense to me, especially if you are using a player that passes btb now.

Nothing is perfect. The "technology" is just too new.

Ears, It's been nice chatting with you - we probably should have done this over the phone. :)

Let us know how the 3910 compares to your Onkyo when you get it.

The person at AVS Forum who's Integra DPS 10.5 locks up is: mattepntr The thread can be found by clicking here.

Another Integra Blooper regarding the green pixels when video is of a black screen can be found here User: Mattepntr

I guess my point Greg is that you wrote that the Onkyo is a flawless machine in a post above. At the time I thought you were posting credible information. So.. I looked into it & from what I've learned, this appears to be untrue.

One of your statements above regarding the 3910:

The the macro blocking is supposedly not as bad as the 5900, but why have artifacts at all when you can have it all whith the Onkyo/Integra.

Have it all? Shesh! To me, that seems to be an over the top statement when I can easily find people discussing artifacts with the Onkyo/Integra.

I still like this thread on Audio Asylum where Joe Murphy Jr. tells you like it is.

Ears. Nice review. People keep saying some of these players have "better build" than others. I am curious, on what grounds is this being determined?

The pictures look very interesting - I appreciate your honest thoughts regarding "build quality". I couldn't find the internal photo of the 3910 on the Crutchfield website so I've added the one I've been using for planning mods.

Photo Links: Onkyo Photos || Denon Photos (scroll to bottom)

I'd say you're correct in that the Onkyo seems like a much more advanced build from an engineering perspective to say the least. I've seen the wimpy 3910 power supply many times. Oddly enough, the weakness of the Denon 3910 (and 2900) power supply is actually the strength of the unit when it comes to modification. If you look inside a 3910, you'll see a TON of room for improvement.

The external appearance of the 3910 is embarrassing actually - but then again, to my eyes, the Onkyo/Integra isn't all that ravishing either. Neither would look good in my system.

But then again... who makes a nice looking Multi-Format Player??? GOLDMUND BABY!! Only fifty of these will be made - and the cost is just $75,000 bucks!