DENAFRIPS DAC ---- Owner Impressions, Feedback, General Discussion, Questions and more....

+1 on Van den Hul

I have the Pontus and it didn't come with a power cord either. I'm using a Van den hul I've had for years and used on other components. It's always sounded great to me. 

Give Triode Wire Labs' Digital American power cable a try. 30 day trial period.

http://www.triodewirelabs.com/triodeweb/shop/audiophile-power-cords/digital-american-series/

I suppose, it would have been shame and unprofessional to include one with the reference model. If the customer is supposedly going to spend as much as $6000, they will surely be scrupulous on the power supply they choose. So I get it. Whether it really makes a difference even for the top model I have no claim on that, you'd think though it would be worthy of something better than the generic one.


So OK, even for the Ares I suppose to keep costs as low as possible you would also tend to ship a generic one, not that I thought it was a bad choice in the first place. I have yet to get responses and research on the alternatives although it does sound silly to hunt for something that could better it.

@reggy  Do you know that the Terminator doesn't (repeat doesn't) come with a power cord?

Makes one wonder?  : )  : )  : )

@philipwu wow didn't realize how bad it was, I would figure a power cable is a power cable for that rating of 10A 125V, while a regulated power supply would be the only upgrade I could make for a difference in sound quality. If @jayctoy uses another cable that works I would be happy to consider it.

Would you guys advocate for replacing this power cable to claim that a better linear/regulated power supply can improve the accuracy of the internal clock of the DAC? Or such as to improve the analogue output by various means?

If a linear power supply doesn't seem like a necessity, I'll be more than happy to replace it with a better power supply as recommended.

Thanks,

Reggy

Audiostream / Alex Halberstadt review of the Denafrips Terminator

https://www.audiostream.com/content/review-denafrips-terminator-dac

@reggy hi,  the stock power cord is Generic, nevermind that I-Sheng brand (MIC) , it’s the worst cable you would wanna use. jayctoy would be in better position to advise you the appropriate powercable for your Ares , happy listening.
-phil

@jayctoy  Quick question what power cord are you using to replace the stock one? The stock one I have for the Ares is "E55943LL41230 I-SHENG 10A 125V 27.00118.011-R Power Cable, IS-14" should be good enough right?

Another Blue Moon Award from 6moons bestowed on the House of Alvin!

Congratulations to Alvin and Vinshine Audio for this recognition for the Kinki Studio EX-M1 Integrated Amplifier.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/kinki/1.html

System performance update. I've had the new streamer (Roon Core) in system for a day now. It has eliminated my Network Switch, and I am using one Supra CAT8 LAN cable (instead of two). This streamer has a LAN Bridge which allows me to go LAN In and then LAN Out to my player (Roon Endpoint). 

System (SYSTEM - for emphasis) impact on sound performance was immediately apparent and positive (across the metrics / areas we typically discuss) in ways I appreciate and value. I've highlighted some below.

A shift in Bass performance (previously quite good): tighter with impressive palpable tautness AND / WHILE also being fuller / rounder (remarkable since usually we get lean and tight OR full and round but not both).

Greater emotional tension and energy in how music is conveyed. The extra Body, Weight and Fullness extend through the upper midrange.  The system is now even more resolved and transparent --- bursting with additional musical information and energy deep into the 'window.'  Resonance, decay, air, etc. have increased. Greater Aliveness. Greater dynamic impact. Palpable and Natural.

I find computer peripherals break in fairly quickly (all cabling and the power supply were already fully burned in) and though I expect some improvement I'm comfortable posting about the upside of this piece in my system, now. If there are any major or unusual changes, I will report back.

How does the Denafrips Terminator fit into this? It's where all that digital effort upstream gets converted. Without it, those gains and improvements don't get expressed downstream. Needless to say I'm very impressed with it's performance.

I believe it's "the system" and the synergies within, rather than the 'single' component or 'item.' I realize it's easier to discuss differences within the context of 'A Change' we make...however, I'm trying to move away from that. 

The streamer is the Small Green Computer i7 Kaby Lake Roon DSP unit. The player is the Sonore Signature Rendu SE. I am using SoTM LAN cables and filter for the final leg between the streamer and player.

Amplifier is the T+A PA 3100 HV integrated amp. Speakers are Tekton Design Double Impact SEs.  100 percent Tidal/Roon.

Final major cable (my IC) is close to full break in. System sounds terrific.

I have a new Roon only (Core) server with ethernet direct to my Roon player coming in shortly. This will allow me to bypass the network switch and season with LAN cables. I have upgraded DC cables for my LPS to the router, switch, etc. coming at the end of July. 

I'll post an (evolving) review of my system, with the Denafrips Terminator as a core / fundamental component in it, in a couple of weeks, with appropriate updates on the impact of the front-front end of the system as they arrive and settle in.

For those of you considering the Denafrips Terminator, my findings through my ongoing system upgrades are supportive of how truly capable this DAC is. 

@alvin1118 GREAT news on the US based service center!

Glad to see your building this thing the best possible way.  Best of luck going forward!

My system is coming together as a final whole. I'll update with another writeup (more system specific than Terminator specific) in a few weeks. 

One standout takeaway from my recent gear evaluations is that the Denafrips Terminator has held it's own across amplification, cabling, and power change-ups. It has scaled exceptionally well.

Alvin, it's a great review (and perspective).

The case to go I2S into the Terminator keeps getting more compelling! : )

Hello @david_ten ,

Thank you for your kind words. Yes, owners still need to contact us for RMA. We will be the front line to determine the type of fault, thereafter, engage Mike to make the necessary arrangement: Pick up - Fix - Return

Meanwhile, an interesting review of the Terminator: here.

Enjoy the music!

Rgds,
Alvin @ Vinshine Audio

@alvin1118  Alvin, Terrific response and support!

Just for clarification: owners will still need to contact you (Vinshine Audio) to generate the 'RMA' or equivalent, along with the resulting shipping labels, etc., correct?

I ask because many of us know Mike Powell and I imagine some may think to reach out to him directly.

Thank you.

Jayctoy, I remember you too. Your wife was with you and we spoke briefly about being on Audiogon.  Yeah the Pontus make me smile every time I fire up my system. No regrets .

Hello guys,

We have had someone in mind for months now but wanted to make sure that person was up to our standard of service. After a couple of repairs were done very well, we are happy to announce the US service center in Atlanta GA, Mike Powell Audio, a 15 year veteran in the Hifi industry with the background in modification and repair as well as design and manufacturing.

Henceforth, for US customers, you do not need to ship the faulty unit back to us. Mike offers 'white glove' courier service. All you need to do is to pack the unit back in its original packaging, tape it, and wait for the courier to pick up from your doorstep. 

The turn around time is approx 1-2 weeks. Once fixed, the unit will be returned to you, door to door delivery. 

More details here: USServiceCenter

Many thanks.

Sincerely,
Alvin @ Vinshine Audio

@coach59   Great to hear you are loving your Pontus. Thanks for your write up and sharing your impressions!

Well, I've been waiting for everything to settle in before giving my thoughts on the Pontus. I bought the demo at Axpona after hearing the all four in the Denafrips room. The Terminator was out of my price range and the Ares was gone, but the Pontus was right in my wheel house. My system: Amp: ATI 1807
                               Preamp: Modwright swl 9.0
                               CDP: Denon2900
                               Speakers: Usher Audio CP-6371
                               Computer: Asus desktop.
Once everything was plugged in I fired up one of my playlist on Spotify. I was not impressed. Everything sounded dull and lifeless. Cd's sounded just ok and I was wondering why this thing didn't sound like it did at the show. I changed ic's ,power cords and usb cables. I let it play for a week straight and no change. Then I read the manual. The button for NOS/OS was set to NOS(no over sampling) I changed it to OS(over sampling) and it made all the difference in the world to my ears. 
The Pontus is a very good dac. The sound leans ever so slightly to the warm side with a neutral presentation. Micro detail from the Pontus is so good , you will here new music in old music. On some familiar tunes I heard things way back in the mix.  I'm a jazz guy with a good amount of classical thrown in,  and the amount and sound of bass is perfect for me. You can hear the timber of the instrument whether plucked or bowed. Cymbals sound like cymbals, not white noise. Pianos are real and dynamic. With it being such a quiet piece of gear, you can hear the venues on some live classical recordings. I've never heard this in my room before.  
I started out using my Acoustic Zen silver ic's from the dac to the preamp, and it sounded fine. But Vinh and Norm with Gingko Audio gave me a pair of Dana Cable Onyx interconnects. I took out the Zen's and in went the Dana's. The Zen's gave me more air, but the Dana's made everything sound more natural and real. They will stay.
Some things I don't like about the unit are the tiny lights. Unless you have the dac setting at eye level you can't see them. So I moved in my rack so I could see them. Also a remote would be helpful in switching between sources instead of getting up to do it. All in all the Pontus is well worth the price. The music it makes will make you smile and listen. What more could you want. 

@alvin1118 thank you for clarifying.

The terms fall in line with what the typically reputable company provides, and I believe that’s fair.

Coincidentally, just as you posted this, I followed the link you provided earlier in this thread to read through the terms. One benefit folks should consider is the TRANSFERABLE warranty.

Having shipped a lot from China and Singapore, I’ve found FedEX and DHL two of the better options, though FedEX costs a fair amount less. For those at home and for sake of convenience, I’m providing a few (3 shipping options exist, with delivery times listed as within 2 days of one another) rates to Singapore for packages ranging from 15 - 50 pounds, as I would think the DENAFRIPS products fit in somewhere close to that range. Interestingly enough, pricing did not change from both the East and West Coasts of USA - perhaps related to FedEX using their hub in TN regardless?
15 pounds: $267 - $357
25 pounds: $333 - $389
35 pounds: $486 - $592
50 pounds: $584 - $753

Hello guys,

Our warranty coverage is comprehensive.

- Defective within 30days, we cover both way shipping fee
- Within a year, we cover one way return shipping fee
- Within 3 years, client to cover both way shipping fee

DENAFRIPS DACs are rather easy to be serviced, in most case, it can be done by swapping the board. If you’re a hands on person with electronics knowledge, the board can be replaced easily with a few screws and a little soldering. The PSU and the DAC board are modular, it’s almost plug and play (except for Ares). We will work with the client to decide mutually the best economical way forward.

All these policies are in place. You’re well covered.

Many thanks.

Sincerely,
Alvin @ VINSHINE AUDIO

Viablex ,..LOL
Sure can’t wait,,.

Thanks for the follow-up will definitely keep everyone posted.

Thank you trelja for the nice response. I cannot argue that there is not some risk involved in purchasing from a young company located in China. Anything can happen and groundless speculation is really pointless. I would have never dreamed that Thiel and Classe, both well-respected North American manufacturers with a strong US dealer network for decades, would cease to exist by 2018 back when I bought their top products in the 90’s. Oppo just folded despite a rabidly faithful customer base.

I think the Terminator is a game changer in my system. At under $5k the value is ridiculously high. I have not heard the Mytek Manhattan but understand that it is a fine DAC. Personal preference makes the audio world go round!

It’s all good, trelja. :)

Dave

Good point Trelja ,certainly thought should be given to these realities before making a purchase.
I understand in the event of a failer like example one of the multiple capacitors that are in the Terminator the boards are pin connected not soldered for easy removal and installation not to mention the distributors fabulous customer relations including a 36 month warranty which includes a round trip shipping covered by Denafrips if needed was enough to satisfy me to purchase the Terminator. 

@dlcockrum thank you for your perspective, Dave. I do appreciate hearing feedback so I can consider and adjust.

I have no axe to grind, nor is this a situation of sour grapes. Those things are certainly NOT my intention. As this thread details, I’ve taken part in the DENAFRIPS evaluations, as Vinh and I go way back, and I’m fortunate enough for him to trust my opinion enough to include me in things like this, in addition to getting to spend time together.

I have a high enough level of confidence in the resolution and overall capabilities of Vinh’s system to know it didn’t blend the products into something that prevented us from providing an accurate assessment. Having heard other DACs and other front-ends during our times with the DENAFRIPS products bolsters that.

My opinion holds in that the DENAFRIPS lineup from top to represents a strong group of DACs. Again, not world beaters or game changers, listening to the Brooklyn DAC in the same setting showed that. But without question, worthy. In fact, the Ares is so strong and so close to the Terminator it’s a flat out screaming bargain and no-brainer. So it DEFINITELY wins my recommendation, as I’ve stated several times. Restating the house sound and lack of distance between the products, I do get confused when it comes to the middle two products. For me, it’s a question of the value of the lower cost one balanced by the improved aesthetic of the more expensive. The Terminator certainly represents a strong statement at the top of their line. I CONDITIONALLY recommend it, and have given it for myself consideration.

Now, comes the area we disagree...I’ve seen far too many instances of folks getting burned in the long run by BOTH domestic and foreign high-end audio and all manner of other industries, by spending good money on what they considered an excellent product at the time only to be left holding the bag in the end because the manufacturer, importer, or seller did not invest in any degree of infrastructure and end-user support. Using past as prologue, I have little tolerance when that happens in real time, and I call it out to ensure folks understand everything. Forewarned is forearmed.

Electronic components, audio and otherwise, break. When they do, the customer requires and deserves support. Though the world has shrunk exponentially, it still costs hundreds of dollars to ship a DAC between North America and either Singapore or China. In fact, a two way trip may exceed the cost of an Ares itself. That means, it’s now a paper weight. Unless a North American support entity rises up, eventually people who buy these products WILL find themselves getting burned in the end. That’s also why the Terminator gets only my conditional recommendation, for now.


In the end, I am actually rooting for the company. A lot of what lies behind this and my previous post is to spur the company on to doing this thing the right way.  I like the product, and again, am considering a purchase. No doubt DENAFRIPS has generated sales of late, at least some directly from Vinh’s efforts. Does the temptation exist to not buy the cow when you get the milk for free? In other words, why not make a few bucks selling however many get sold direct, invest as little into the customer as possible, and get out when the output no longer exceeds the input? If so, I feel that’s short-sighted, and ultimately lose - lose

trelja,

While I share your frustration regarding the lack of promotion and active presence in the US marketplace from Denafrips themselves, your post reads as if you have an axe to grind beyond what you wrote here. Sour grapes as it were.

Today, quite a few non-US manufacturers have little to no "on soil" representation. Not a desireable thing for us here IMO, but a reality nonetheless. Alvin at Vinshine Audio does a very fine job covering the bases on customer support for Denafrips products across the globe.

As for the differences in sound quality between the Ares and the Terminator, there are numerous testimonials from owners on the Facebook Denafrips Owners Group forum, some of whom have moved up the line from the Ares to the Pontus, some from Pontus to Venus, some from Venus to Terminator, and some from Ares to Terminator that describe very large improvements in sound quality as they moved up, particularly the latter group. Your opinion counts equally, but is an outlier among the field.

I have a close friend that attended Axpona 2018 and spent time in the Gingko/Denafrips suite. He was initially gracious in sharing his opinion with me but it is clear that he found the sound largely underwhelming due to the chosen speakers perhaps. Upon hearing the Terminator in my system, he was in disbelief that the same DAC was in play in both systems. The sound quality from the Terminator was that much better here to his ears.

No doubt that Denafrips and Alvin need to do a much better job with hands-on participation at these shows and also with their promotional efforts in general, but what your wrote above is overly heavy-handed IMO.

Dave

Referring back to our auditions with the DENAFRIPS products at Vinh’s, I just wanted to summarize a few things:

The DENAFRIPS products, from the Ares all the way up to the Terminator are excellent sounding DACs. I believe at less than $700, the Ares represents tremendous value in the marketplace, and isn’t far from the Terminator; certainly not as far as one would expect. World beaters or game changers? I wouldn’t use those terms. In fact, in comparison with Vinh’s (incredible) vinyl rig, the Terminator did not come close. Would I consider one for purchase? Yes, absolutely. But do I consider them without peer? No.

At this point, DENAFRIPS has NO North American representation. Although Vinh has bent over backwards in helping the brand through efforts like our get togethers and featuring the products at AXPONA, he is not the importer / distributor, and from the time we spoke about it, considered it too big an undertaking for him at this point in his life. In other words, although Vinh is an exceptionally good man (I know that because he’s been a good friend of mine for 20 years), to the best of what I know today, he has no financial compensation in this whole thing. Thus he is not here to help anyone should they require it beyond what he provides through his own kindness and grace. Likewise, there is NO North American repair facility / personnel or product support.

I believe the establishment of a foothold in North America, or not, rests with the leadership of DENAFRIPS finding a capable entity to represent them in this market. If that does not happen, understand that if you consider purchasing the product, you essentially are on your own.

As of today and unless and until what I just mentioned changes, you buy a DENAFRIPS product, YOU assume the risk as well as the responsibility for dealing with the offshore based company if anything goes wrong from A - Z, from the transaction itself to day you or it goes away

@t_ramey Thanks for the link.

Alex Halberstadt (of Audiostream) was reviewing the Terminator. Given the new ownership and new editor, I wonder if his review will be published? It would be great to read a comparison with your Lampizator Atlantic.

I'm late to the Denafrips party as I hadn't heard of this brand until reading a review of the Lampizator Atlantic of which I own. I've read from a couple places now that some who have heard both the Atlantic and the Terminator have preferred the Terminator. Here's the link to that review in case anybody hasn't seen this...

https://www.audiostream.com/content/lampizator-atlantic-dac

@viablex1   I'm copying your post from a thread you initiated:

I ordered an ares and received shipment about a week to ten days ago. Initially it would not turn on. Then I saw lights and eventually sound. Not sure what was going on but it was a prelude to what happened next. I liked the sound very musical but when using the first coax input I kept getting this weird volume problem. when a track would start it would cut almost completely off then go back to the original volume. So I needed to send it back which I am doing but it is expensive because there is no USA support at all. I almost bought the Pontus but glad I didn't since it would have cost even more to ship it back.

I am not saying never buy one or bashing denafrips just know if something goes wrong shipping back is exorbitant

Per Denafrips Warranty policy (referenced below) there should be no cost for you to ship back for warranty work within the first 30 days.

"36 Months Warranty, Peace of MindComprehensive Warranty Coverage: 

All DENAFRIPS products are covered under this policy. Warranty covers non-man-made defects. Customer shall bear the import duties and taxes whenever applicable.

30 Days: DENAFRIPS to bear both way shipping fee.31-365 Days: Customer to bear one way shipping fee. DENAFRIPS to repair and cover return shipping fee.
366-1095 Days: Customer to bear both way shipping fee. DENAFRIPS to repair at free labor and parts at no cost.
1096 Days Onwards: Customer to bear both way shipping cost. DENAFRIPS to provide repair and/or maintenance services at cost."

If something goes wrong mine did shipping is very expensive. I had the ares

@bube 

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but did you used to own or still own a Lampizator Atlantic? If so, can you describe the differences between it and the Terminator? 

bluewolf

Thanks for your kind words on the Lightspeed, I noticed you have the dual mono version, good choice as you can perfectly centre the sound stage image regardless of speaker position or room abnormalities.
Battery is even better again for the Lightspeed, I recommend this Lithium-Ion rechargeable one, you can get up to 2 weeks listening in between a recharge, it has the blackest back ground (as if your system has switched off in between notes/tracks)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Portable-DC-12V-2In1-Rechargeable-8000Mah-Li-ion-Battery-Pack-US-EU-UK-Adap...

Long time ago an amp that used Nelson Pass Class-A circuit used battery, which was highly regarded call the NEW-Class-A CD33 or something.

Cheers George

Hi George, @georgehifi

Thanks for your kind words on my system and review. And thank you for the excellent Lightspeed Attenuator.

My understanding is that the Acoustical Systems battery amps never went into production and there were only a handful of pairs made. I guess the company wants to concentrate on analog front-end components and phono preamps. I was told that their input impedance is 100k ohms and that there is only one MOSFET per mono amp. Your Lightspeed Attenuator is sounding very nice feeding these amps. I very much appreciate that the Lightspeed is outstanding value for money, and so I understand the reason for the wall wart PS that is supplied. My My next point is in no way intended to be a criticism given the outstanding value proposition that the Lightspeed is, but rather the opposite as to what an excellent design the Lightspeed is. I would like to note that it scaled up beautifully with the custom silver wired power supply unit I managed to get for it.

All the best!

@bluewolf 
I am using your very nice Lightspeed in my Rey Audio Kinoshita speaker system

Wow, that's a pretty esoteric looking second system, what are the Acoustical Systems battery amps and their input impedance. I can't find anything on them?

 https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/10109613.jpg

david_ten @bluewolf  Your write-up and system and music photos look terrific!

Ditto on this.

Cheers George

@bluewolf   Your write-up and system and music photos look terrific!

https://www.denafrips.com/single-post/2018/05/12/DENAFRIPS-Terminator-Jay%E2%80%99s-Audio-CDT-3-MK2-...

bluewolf

Did you try coming out the Omnigon's tape out into the Lightspeed then into the poweramp.? So you only use the Omingon's phono stage?.

As that's what my other TAD customers do with their Lightspeed's and their phono preamps, they say this way the sound is to die for, much more transparent and dynamic, with a black ground, so black you think the systems switch off in between notes and silent passages..

Cheers George   

@georgehifi

Hi bluewolf, had a look at your very nice system in your bio, and can't see where your using my Lightspeed Attenuator, this would be the 3rd set of Pioneer Tad's it's being used with that I know, have you done some changes to it and not updated your pic?

Hi George,

I am using your very nice Lightspeed in my Rey Audio Kinoshita speaker system, not in the TAD 2404 analog system where I am using an Acoustical Systems Omnigon Phono Preamp. I do need to get around to putting up my digital system in Virtual Systems. There is a photo which includes the Lightspeed in the same review which I also posted on head-fi as 1note in the Dedicated Source Components forum.

Cheers

@david_ten 
Your TAD 2404 speakers are gorgeous! You'll have to post updated photos with your Enigma Supertweeters and the Denafrips Terminator in system.

Hi David, Many thanks. I would be happy to be buried with them! I do indeed need to update my photos. However, I am not using either of my two sets of CDT-3 / Terminator in my TAD system due to space constraints. I must one day connect one set up on a temporary basis.