DENAFRIPS DAC ---- Owner Impressions, Feedback, General Discussion, Questions and more....
Thread for OWNER IMPRESSIONS, FEEDBACK, QUESTIONS, ETC. regarding DENAFRIPS DACs.
DENAFRIPS lists the following R2R DACs:
Ares, Pontus, Venus, and Terminator (in increasing price order).
"DENAFRIPS incorporated in year 2012, focus in developing high end audio equipment at a very affordable price. Throughout the years of intense Research & Development, and continuous improvement of the product lines, DENAFRIPS had finally settled with the current product range equipped with R-2R ladder DAC technology. The reason behind this is the designer strongly believe that R-2R DAC is the best way to reproduce music.
@jayctoy Yes bring your CDs. @1markr Believe it or not, as I didn't want to use copyrighted music, the track I used on the demo was a recording of a Middle School Band my son played in when he was 12. Not only the performance was great, the recording (unfortunately in mp3) was actually very good too, with good dynamics and clearly delineated soundstage. I will bring it to AXPONA as one of the sample music tracks. If you are interested in it, email me and I will send it to you. If there is enough interest, I can make it downloadable from the Gingko Audio website. Vinh Vu
Vinh thank you for this offer comparison, Iam in, I will bring my friend who mentor me on this hobby and music....it’s good to have onother ears.See you then....
@jayctoy Show hours are Friday and Saturday 10-6, and Sunday 10-4. If you bring the Gumby we can hook it up Friday after 6 to compare with the Ares and Pontus. Vinh
@Jayctoy, If you bring your Gumby, I can set up an after hour comparison with the Ares, which is around the same price range. Which driver does the Gumby use? All Denafrips uses Amanero which simplifies the interface with my Salk Stream Player. Vinh Vu
Vinh nice demo, Milpai , yes I will do the best I can to describe the sound on each denafrips , for bonus I compare them with Schiit dacs ,they will be there too, I own Gumby though, I will do the best to be fair, going to Axpona my brain is already set on yagdrassil, I delayed the purchase because I might end up liking one of Denafrips dacs...or maybe just the schiit bifrost multibit,
@jayctoy , Will surely like to hear from you on this demo. Seems pretty interesting what 6moons said, Vs AudioStream. Not sure if we can trust online rags anymore. User reviews should be more useful. But we all ave some bias or the other.
I am looking forward to it. I hope to learn from the dry run to make the demo at AXPONA better. I hope someone on this board will be able to attend and give you all an unbiased report. Vinh Vu
I got all 4 Denafrips models running in my system, hooked up
to the preamp inputs to allow for real-time switching among them. To ensure that the comparison is as valid as
possible:
·
Each DAC is connected to the server with a USB
cable
·
Selection of music tracks are done via an IPad
user interface
·
Fast switching between preamp inputs is done via
a remote to minimize delay
·
Volume levels are matched by using an SPL meter
measuring a pink noise track
·
If the two DACs have different output levels,
use a high-quality passive attenuator to dial down the higher level until the
SPL meter reads the same for both DACs.
·
The inputs of the preamp are set up for the DACs
without knowledge for the test audience
·
Although not quite a double-blind test, this
allows for a fair comparison between the DACs.
Using Roon, the music tracks can be synched perfectly but I
found that quick successive switching back and forth between many DACs is too
confusing, especially to others in the audience. I found that the best approach is a pair-wise
comparison between two DACs, repeating a familiar musical passage on one and
then the other. That way, the audience
hears the musical performance as a whole and each person can zero in the aspect
of the sound he/she is focused in to look for differences without losing the
perspective of the whole musical performance.
The demo dry run is scheduled for 2:00 PM Saturday, March
31, in Farmingdale NJ.
Send me your email if you want to participate in the session
and I will send details about the logistics.
Promises to be a fun event!
And you can legitimately claim to be at the true world premiere
introduction of the full line of Denafrips R2R DACs. Bring your own DAC and if we have time we can
do a head-to-head shootout under the same controlled conditions described
above.
Those of you who want to attend the session will need to contact me through the Gingko Audio website and give me your email so I can be in touch with details. Vinh Vu
Another update on the Denafrips demo at AXPONA. I am expecting the Ares and the Pontus this week and am planning on a dry run on Saturday afternoon March 31 in Farmingdale NJ. I can hook all 4 DACs and playing them simultaneously for comparison but I think pairwise comparison between two DACs is more effective and practical (it gets too confusing with more than two). I can also compare the Denafrips with any other USB DACs with a passive level-matching device. PM me if you are interested in participating in the session. Vinh Vu Gingko Audio and Danacable
Update on the AXPONA Denafrips demo. The Venus is in the house (thank you Alvin) and I was able to set it up to play in parallel with the Terminator. I can do real-time switching between the two for comparison so the demo will work. Having all four models in the chain will take a little more coordination but it should work fine. I am expecting the Pontus and Ares soon. Vinh Vu Gingko Audio and Danacable
@jayctoy I am just happy to introduce fellow audiophiles to a nice product. Having been in the business for 20 years, I know how difficult it is to break into the market with new products. I have been fortunate to have had helps along the way and am just looking to pass it forward. I had a recent session at my place to show off the system I am bringing to AXPONA (including the Terminator) and everyone seemed to like it. @ david_ten glad you are enjoying our Danacable Lazuli Reference on your Utopia. The Ultra is better but at a cost. There will be an upcoming review comparing the full Lazuli line (Lazuli, Lazuli Reference, and Lazuli Ultra) on the Abyss Phi headphones. That should give you some info about how the Lazuli Reference fares against the Ultra. Vinh Vu
@bube Looking forward to hearing about your findings from the early demo of the full DENAFRIPS DAC line prior to Axpona.
Vinh, by the way, I have your Danacables Lazuli Reference leash for my Focal Utopias. A fabulous pairing for the Focal Headphones! I see you have the step up Ultra in your lineup now. Can’t imagine it getting better, but I’m sure it does. : )
rja2,007 posts03-10-2018 2:50pmWould really be fun to see the Soekris DAC1541 included in this conversation. It has volume control and is available at a reasonable price even though it's their top model.
+1 for that, seeing they're both doing R2R discretely in a similar fashion. And the DAC1421 is even better value again same as the 1541, if you don't need xlr at 850eu.
@jayctoy to be clear Denafrips are NOT my products. I represent Gingko Audio and Danacable and we are the main exhibitors in Room 1524 at AXPONA. Denafrips are made in China and sold exclusively worldwide by Vinshine Audio (Alvin) in Singapore. I am just a happy Denafrips customer who bought the Terminator sight unseen strictly on recommendations from Dana Robbins (of Danacable fame). I was so impressed with my Terminator I convinced Alvin to be a partner in the room at AXPONA. Then I came up with this crazy idea of showing all four of his DACs hooked up to the same system so we can switch among them in near-real-time (details are still being worked out). Alvin was gracious enough to agree to loan me all four models for the demo and I am expecting to have them in time to break them in and stage them in the system that I am bringing to AXPONA. So I hope to have a working demo for the early April time frame. Stay tuned for more details in the days to come. Vinh Vu Gingko Audio and Danacable
@gdhal Excellent points and exactly the kind of information we should be sharing with one another. Thank you.
To expand on the topic somewhat, all reviews are merely observations and there is no substitute for listening. It is nice that some reviewers do post measurements and it is also a great frame of reference for many. Im glad JA when presented with a contrary outcome in conflict with his findings revised his opinion on the Tritons. To me that actually shows some character. I’ve had a Yggy in my system and I couldn’t figure out what the fuss was about but that has been some time ago. Have a terrific day.
To the original topic of the thread, its great that @bube will be making the 4 Denafrips models available for listening at Axpona. It would be better still if there were a couple of popular models from other companies that would provide a frame of reference. When launching a new brand into a market, it helps when reputable and objective community members post their general observations.
The measured problems JA observed in the Schiit are very real although if you like the sound you like the sound.
High level feedback.... And this in no way is a poke at your post @ghasley . Rather, I'm just calling into question JA's measurements in general.....
It's my understanding that the measured Yggdrasil (analog A) "problems" JA found were disputed by Jason Stoddard. Story goes Jason submitted third-party tests indicating otherwise. JA chose to stick to his findings.
Unrelated to DAC but relevant to JA measurements.... I do know for a *fact* that JA found some undesirable measurement data with the Golden Ear T Ref (speakers). However, Sandy Gross successfully demonstrated the "flaws" with JA's measurement, to which JA agreed and revised his published statements (or revised them before it went to print).
I plan to set up a test run of the AXPONA demo comparing the 4 Denafrips DACs switchable in a real-time demo in Farmingdale NJ in early April time frame. PM me if you can attend and be among the first to hear it. Vinh Vu Gingko Audio and Danacable
Would really be fun to see the Soekris DAC1541 included in this conversation. It has volume control and is available at a reasonable price even though it's their top model.
@dlcockrum your 2 data points using the all positive reviews from 6 moons and the quasi negative review of the Schiit by Stereophole kindof proves the point. I’m not saying all of the reviews by 6 moons are invalid, they’re just all positive all the time. The measured problems JA observed in the Schiit are very real although if you like the sound you like the sound. Im certain the Denafrips is cool, many will buy and enjoy it. It will eventually be reviewed by reputable publications, I will read those with great interest.
The Audiostream reported observations of the 4 dacs seemed a reasonable outcome but I have heard none of the 4. I viewed their choice of the 2 totaldacs at 1-2 predictable but the way I read it the Borderpatrol became congested during the complex passages of that particular musical selection (which happens) but they seemed to believe the Denafrips had trouble during all of their musical choices. By any measure, the fact that the Borderpatrol hung with dacs at multiples of its price is impressive. A home demo will provide the answer. I look forward to the observations voiced by fellow Audiogoners.
I understand your concern ghasley, but, based on that logic, the positive reviews for the Lavorgna-exalted totaldac and also Lampizator, Pass Labs, Metrum, Aqua, Allnic, Gryphon, Less Loss, SOtM, COS, and many others are all invalid.
While all of these manufacturers must be paying advertising fees to six moons since their products are all reviewed there, very few of them receive Blue Moon awards as the Terminator did. That must have cost Denafrips a fortune!
Stereophile, and thus its daughter publication Audiostream, have long been known to give preference to their advertising partners for review selection and even giving their paying partners second chance reviews when things go badly the first time. I think the Schiit Yggdrasil review shows what happens to manufacturers that buck the tide with John Atkinson.
Makes one wonder what Stereophile/Audiostream toes were stepped on to merit the drive-by hatchet job that Lavorgna did on the Border Patrol and Denafrips DACs in that sorry excuse for a DAC comparison.
Everyone is different but I have not read one review from 6 moons because they REQUIRE a manufacturer to purchase ad(s) prior to reviewing a product.
@ghasley You just dashed my hopes with that statement. I was hoping to find more information on the Wyred4Sound STP-SE Stage-2 which they reviewed favorably. The reason I was eyeing it because it is a passive/active design that has been praised in a couple of professional reviews and they said it has that clean sound like a TVC.
As I understand it, Lessloss actually uses older Soekris boards and costs a lot more. For anyone interested in a r2r should definitely just get the Soekris flagship dac, very affordable and apparently stunning. It's OS so wasn't really in my list, but if you don't care about having NOS, it's possibly one of the best options.
@jayctoy How could I refuse Chicago's famous pizza.... : )
There is a slight chance I may be able to make it to Axpona but I will not be able to confirm until closer to the dates of the show. I will send you a PM should it come together. If it does, I'd love to take you up on your offer. Thank You.
@dlcockrum Everyone is different but I have not read one review from 6 moons because they REQUIRE a manufacturer to purchase ad(s) prior to reviewing a product.
@nitewulf Indeed might be the case re: expectation bias.
The Silverback Reference was the top offering from Devore until recently, replaced by the X/Ten.
Regarding the informal DAC shootout, the market has a way of sorting things out in due course. The flavors of the month come on strong and either remain in the conversation or fade back into the very crowded DAC landscape.
SBAF (I still can't believe there is an audio website whose name sounds like it was created by summer camp counselors) seems to grab onto the latest Gustard or Holo this or that and then move on to the next big thing. I truly hope Denefrips sounds great and has staying power for all who are taking the leap of faith. Regards to all.
@ghasley , I heard the old ones. But that was a flagship I believe for a while. They are great for small scale acoustic stuff, that's why you see them paired with Lebens, they are made for a purpose. Basically I'd take that article with a huge grain of salt, I think there's a lot of expectation bias going on, specifically with the TotalDACs. If you read any reviews/impressions on Superbestaudiofriends, there aren't any good impressions on these dacs. But older audiophiles with money to burn sure love them.
@shadorne I give, I have no axe to grind nor do I believe it productive to debate how something sounds with someone when neither one of us has a clue how they sound because neither one has actually heard them!
You have to admit though, you jumped to a couple of incorrect conclusions based on your faulty assumption of poly drivers. Stereophile seemed to enjoy what they heard at 2018 CES, which also proves nothing until we listen for ourselves. Peace.
7 inch mid range will beam above 1Khz. A 0.75 inch tweeter is not much use below about 4 KHz. So you get a hole in the mid range where the mid range beams and before the tweeter kicks in.
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