Doug: +++++ " What are your qualifications in metallurgy? Your "common sense" is of little use in understanding metals at the molecular level. " +++++
What's all about? why your aggressive mood?
+++++ " . He knows more atomic and molecular level metallurgy than all the audio engineers on the planet. " +++++
Doug, sorry I don't need any person with the Paul qualifications. Maybe you could promote him in a dedicated employment web site.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
For what it is worth I was at the RAMF and attended a seminar by Wally Malewicz. He recommended passive demagnetizing tools such as Cardas, but was against active demagnetizing tools (I specifically asked him about the Benz Aethetix). Wally does not believe any good comes from the active process and that excessive use will damage the cartridge (he provided his scientific reasoning for this via a diagram he drew up - unfortunately I am not technical enough to repeat it for you here). He also shared a DIY process which if you contact him I'm sure he would be willing to share. |
Dear Doug: +++++ " He says it's possible, even probable. " +++++
+++++ " He hasn't attempted to verify this in a metallurgical lab, " +++++
All these means nothing about.
+++++ " He knows more atomic and molecular level metallurgy than all the audio engineers on the planet " +++++
This is arrogant, btw: who cares?
Your post does not help on the main subject.
Doug, you have higher distortion.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Raul,
I answered your question in my post of 9/27. Please read it before repeating questions that have already been addressed.
Paul's education and 22 years of professional experience qualify him to understand whether coils can be magnetized. He knows more atomic and molecular level metallurgy than all the audio engineers on the planet. He says it's possible, even probable.
What are your qualifications in metallurgy? Your "common sense" is of little use in understanding metals at the molecular level. It is of no use in understanding ANY material at atomic or sub-atomic levels. Common sense Newtonian physics just don't apply there.
BTW, suggesting that what every person on this thread hears as an improvement is "distortion" is arrogant, absurd and insulting. You haven't heard what we have, so your "common sense" should have deleted that statement before you posted it.
Doug |
Dear friends: Well, my opinion is that till any one of us have a specific cartridge manufacturer confirmation about the safe demagnatizing " exercise " it will be better stay away.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear friends: The subject here is why we need to demagnatizing a phono cartridge, not if " sound better " after that or not.
I already post the next statement: " for I can demagnatizing a cartridge I need that that cartridge were magnetized before ". I ask to any one in this thread: " which parts are magnetized ? Why are magnetized? if it is magnetized, this magnetized parts change the quality sound reproduction of the cartridge?
Till today every one speaks of many things but not a single one give a specific answers to those critical questions.
Come on: " before I take a towel for to dry my body I need that my body be wet ", usually!!!!! .
Lugnut, this is not negativity, this is : common sense, that's all.
Btw and this is a subject for other time: if what you are hearing after the demagnatizing your cartridge is a better high frecuency reproduction I can tell you for sure that what you are hearing after the demagnatizing is a higher distortion than before that exercise. Please don't turn aside this thread about this " distortion " subject: leave it for a better ocasion.
The " demagnatazing " subject needs your answers about.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
I used the cardas sweep on my Zyx universe and it made a very noticeable improvement. I did 30 minutes on each of the 3 tracks. |
I do appreciate Raul's sense of caution. We are talking about some pretty expensive cartridges here.
Still, like Lugnut I have a hard time imagining any harm from playing a normally-cut record. We're not talking Telarc cannons here.
The damage Tubes108 experienced came from multiple uses of an active demagnetizer. As I said originally, I would hesitate to use such a device before checking with the cartridge manufacturer. His unfortunate experience, which I thank him for sharing, confirms that some caution is necessary. |
Raul,
I fail to see any reasoning at all used with your caution regarding the Cardas frequency sweep. Geez, it's only a record. Cut in the normal way too. Give me a break. Sometimes I just want to pull my hair out with your negativity. My position? If my cartridge implodes from playing this disk then so be it. I'm better off without it! |
Hey Doug
Hi. I used the Aethetix to demag on my ZYX. But I stress, that the Aethetix is a good device and a single pass demag-ing the ZYX did positive results sonically. Doing multiple passes was unnecessary. And I would hesitate doing multiple passes on any cartridge. |
Dear Doug: I mean: Not you or I.
Who can tell me for sure that there will be no harm/degradation in the cartridge in the long run?
With out a definitive manufacturer answer, my advice is to stay far away.
As a fact any one of us does not want that our value cartridges: 3K to 9K, can suffer any damage " only for demagnatizing " it.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Doug: My experience and answers from manufacturers were for the active devices.
I don't know about the Cardas passive device.
What I know, active or passive, is that the question has to be answered by the cartridge manufacturer. Not a dealer not any one of us.
The cartridge manufacturer is the person that has all the know how about and in particular about his cartridge.
+++++ " How would that harm a cartridge? " +++++
You don't know for sure, the cartridge manufacturer has the best/safe answer. Not you.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
My Benz Aethetix demag suggests trying multiple passes and I have in the past with a Glider and some Grado cartridges without harm. However, after reading this thread I'm not so sure this device is what I should continue to use in the future. I now have a Benz M2 which I just bought so I want to make sure it lasts a while and stays at peak performance levels. Any suggestions out there for the best demag/degausser tools to use?
I'll also be at RAMF this weekend so I hope to learn more about this topic and possible solutions there in addition to what I can learn here. |
Tubes108,
What kind of demagnification did you use. Active device? Cardas record? Or...?
Many thanks,
Doug |
OK years ago I owned a ZYX--before they were imported to USA. Loved that cartridge. An occasional demag improved the sound of my cartridge.
But.................the instructions on the demag suggested to try multiple passes of the demag cycle. Makes sense, no? One pass improves the sound, try another cycle and see if there is further improvement. This I do not suggest as it fried my cartridge.
So, do your demag, but please be careful. |
Raul,
What damage do you hypothesize could be done by playing a 30-30K Hz frequency sweep? Our cartridges play these frequencies every day. The only difference is that the sweep covers every frequency in a minute or two. How would that harm a cartridge?
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Dear Doug/slowhand: For I can demagnatizing a phono cartridge first I need that some of the critical cartridges parts/build were magnatized and in today cartridges there is no single part that " suffer " the magnatized effect.
So, why have I to demagnatizing something that are not magnatized?
I already ask to some cartridge builders like: Ortofon, Dynavector, Van denhul, Allaerts, Koetsu and Clearaudio. The answers was the same: their cartridges doe not needs demagnatizing, because there are no parts to demagnatizing.
All these similar answers confirm my statement/question.
Now, all of you " hear improvements " after the demagnatizing ( I believe you ) but I think that you are doing more harm to your cartridge that helping it.
Maybe what is happen is the same that happen when you clean/polish a gold metal chain that is dusty: after the clean/polish the gold metal chain really " shine " again but that gold metal chain loose a little of the gold metal ( with each and again clean/polish )and is loosening its original value ( price. less gold content ).
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Rauliruegas,
I used to own a Sumiko Blue point years ago, and a Benz Glider after that. Both of those cartridges benefited from using a demagnatizer. The cartridges seem to lose some of the top end of the music and after demagnatazation the highs seemed to be restored. |
Raul,
I suppose I first heard about demagnetizing here. It does seem ridiculous at first: how could copper/silver coils become magnetized in the first place?
Paul (PhD in metallurgy) theorizes that impurities in the coils become magnetized. He hasn't attempted to verify this in a metallurgical lab, but if he's correct the same could happen in the voice coils of speakers.
Albert Porter and others reported positive results from demagnetizing their Koetsus several years ago. While reluctant to risk active demagnetizing, we decided to try the Cardas record two years ago on our Shelter 901. At worst we figured it could do no harm.
In fact, the improvement was substantial. As with Albert's Koetsu we found weekly sweeps beneficial for the Shelter. ZYX's also benefit, though they don't seem to need it quite as often. OTOH, friends using Denon 103's and Benz's reported no change at all. One imagines that different coils have different impurities, which react differently (or not at all) to magnetic fields.
Regards,
Doug |
Hey Doug: Can you give an answer to my questions about ? I ask you because you support this exercise and if you did I suppose that you know the demagnetizing: Why's.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Slowhand: Who told you that your ZYX or any other today cartridges needs the: demagnatizing sevice?
What do you want to demagnatize? why?
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
thanks for asking, I "thought" I would have to buy a demagnitizer down the road too. Thanks Slowhand for asking, for I have the same cart. |
Thanks for the info guys, it has been an education for me. |
Some cartridges can apparently be damaged by active demagnetizing. VdH specifically advises against it for example. I don't know that it would hurt a ZYX, but to actively demag any cartridge without checking that it's safe would be imprudent. I'd do what Rgurney said first.
The Cardas record's demag tracks are simple frequency sweeps. Why playing a two minute frequency sweep demags anything is beyond me, but it's even harder imagining it doing any harm. |
I have the Benz Aesthetix Demagnetizer, but I have never used it on the ZYX Yatra. Sounds like from your comments that I should not. What is the difference between it and the Cardas LP? I have to say that I love the sound of this cartridge. I play very few CD's these days.
Tom |
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What Dougdeacon and Cello said. |
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Tom,
.
Doug is right on the money. It might be dependant on which model ZYX one has, but the Cardas Frequency Sweep LP (available at Acoustic Sound for less than $ 30.00), makes a nice improvement when used regularly in my system.
.
I find that I can hear clear improvements if I use it every 3 weeks. The longer I wait to use, it the more improvement is discernable.
.
I would definitely get the Cardas LP and see what it does in your system.
.
Rgds,
Larry |
I run the Cardas record's de-mag sweeps past my UNIverse every month or so. It helps clear out a few cobwebs, though the ZYX doesn't need it nearly as much or as often as my old Shelter 901.
I would not risk an active demagnification unless nakatsuka-san himself said it was safe. AFAIK, he hasn't.
Cheers,
Doug |
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