DAC That Punches Above Its Price Point

I’ve had the Gustard X16 for less than a year and love it! ($500)

Check out review at ASR:

That isn’t a review. It is a set of measurements. He doesn’t even mention if he listens to it.

If you believe as ASR does that all that matters is how something measures then I suppose it is a review. But if you care about how something sounds, and that is really all you should care about, ASR is worthless.

"measurements …. mean zero”

...being analog circuitry design engineer, I disagree with such attitude. i

why did you misquote him? he said "Measurements alone mean zero" which is vastly different when you leave out a word

Please point me to any of sound components “certified” by audition at the end of “measurements based” production line.

I have friends who are very highly respected designers/builders of sound components who would not think of shipping a component without listening to it. There are various small shops who do this. I’m not talking about the Marantz’s of the world, I’m talking about smaller shops that care about how things sound and know that measurements can’t tell you everything.

I was responding to “measurements mean zero” attitude, not specific posts.

Then you were responding (as far as I can see) to an attitude that does not exist. I don’t see where anybody advocates that measurements mean zero.

What I and others do advocate is the other end of the spectrum. That is...

measurements do not mean everything.. a very different thing.

But if you go to ASR that is what you get. If he can’t measure it then it does not exist. Measurements done with his audio analyzer are the only things that matter. He usually does not even say anything about the sound of an audio devices that he "reviews", and if he does and hears something that disagrees with his measurements he discounts it to expectation bias.

so to summarize, measurements are very important. Things that don’t measure well will not sound well. However, measurements are not the only thing.

The idea that we have identified and can measure everything that affects how something sounds is ludicrous. Can we definitively measure everything that affects our other senses (sight, touch, taste, smell) ?? Of course not. So why would anybody think we have gotten to the point we can definitively measure how something will sound?

we can’t

The formula for capacitive reactance is: Xc = 1/ 2Pi.f.c This is a fact and as an engineer you know this, or should. There is no 'R' in the equation and therefore ESR is not a factor.

Mr. Lemon, this puts you at the top of my ignore list. Just because R is not a factor in the equation for reactance does not mean it does not exist and certainly does not mean it will not have an effect on how a circuit behaves.

For a filter the cutoff frequency = 1 / (2 pi R C)

ESR is a very real part of that R

Maybe it turns out the ESR is so small that it is swamped out by other R in the circuit, but ignoring a very real, very measurable parameter that affects a circuit's performance just  because it isn't part of a particular formula you have chosen is a rookie designer mistake.

In the audible frequencies for the example I provided, ESR is insignificant.

in your opinion it is insignificant.

You acknowledge that R is not a factor in the relevant equation

in your opinion this is the only relevant equation

your choice to ignore ESR therefore also ignores the fact that ESR is frequency-dependent, temperature-dependent, and changes as components age with some capacitors.

I never said your formula for Xc is incorrect, but filter calculations include R, not just Xc, yet all you quote is the formula for Xc while ignoring the formula for cutoff frequency of an RC filter.

I’m saying since you are deciding which factors and which equations are applicable while ignoring other factors and equations your conclusions seem correct ... to you.

My point is very simple: excellent sound component manufacturers know how to test all components, including parts used in product’s assembly, and final product test, in production flow to ensure every unit “meets the spec”, and therefore they have in place all needed test procedures, equipped with accurate test equipment and provide training for staff.

For this to be true these manufacturers would need  specifications that  include everything that affects how something sounds. 

They do know how to make sure their units meet their specifications.

 They do not know how to specify  everything that affects how something sounds so we are therefore left with one and only valid way to determine how something sounds... listen to it. Before you even go there, yes, listening tests have many  problems, but that's all we have as a final test.