D'Agostino vs. Ayre

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the Ayre's. They are incicively addicting and very musical, but sometimes a touch lean in the mids and sometimes a tad bit harsh on top. I plan to power a pair of Wilson Alexia's. And right now, I have Ayre MX-R Twenties and AtmaSphere MA-1 3.3s in house. The AtmaSpheres are organically rich in the mids and crystalline on top. Never syrupy, but highly transparent. Piano is amazingly realistic, guitar strings blossom with pure harmonics. Not enough bass for some recordings, though. I could imagine the AtmaSpheres to be perfect with a powered woofer. I will try to audition a D'Agostino S-250.

Is there a significant sound difference between the D'Agostino Momentum stereo amp, the S-250, and the mono 400s? As efficient as the Wilson's are, they don't need a ton of power to sound good.

Your experience is contrary to mine. I've found Ayre customer service, Michael especially, to deliver exemplary service and support. I've owned Ayre back since the K-1, V-1 days. They have done several upgrades for me, given tech support over the phone, even provided a resistor change to increase the gain of my KX-R Twenty preamp. I'm Much more than satisfied with Ayre factory support.

I placed an order for a D'Agostino Momentum S-250. It will be about a month before it's in my hands. I'll be able to directly compare it to Ayre MX-R Twenties and Atma Sphere MA-1 3.3s driving Wilson Alexia's, Will report what I hear.

The best treble I've heard thus far is from my Atma Sphere MA-1 3.3s with power supply capacitor and resistor upgrades. If the S-250 bests that, It will be an Amazing amp. I know the bass will be excellent, coming from D'Agostino.

The winner, at least for my ears and in my system, has yet to be determined. But the Ayre MX-R Twenties certainly play at the upper level and are competitive with anyone. So far, I have auditioned and declined Krell, Mark Levinson, Pass Labs, and Audio Research amplification.

What are the sonic differences between the D'Agostino Momentum S-250 stereo amp and mono 400's? Khrys posted that he preferred the treble of the S-250.

Why are the Ayre amps good with Vandersteens? Are the Vandys darker? Does the illuminating quality of the Ayres compliment that?

Four More Weeks til I get my D'Agostino S-250. In the mean time, I just heard the best stereo experience of my lifetime. PS Audio Perfectwave transport sending bits to a Berkeley Alpha Reference 2 DAC. The Berkeley is driving directly a pair of Ayre MX- R Twenties. Speakers are Wilson Alexia's. Orchid, Audioquest, and Synergistic cables. Wow. Two stand outs here. Berkeley DAC. Might be the best on the planet. Wilson speakers. Expensive. Ya. Bang for the buck. Yeah. 

Only a Month til the D'Agostino arrives! Lol. Have you heard the Berkeley Ref V2? Maybe you saw my posts elsewhere, but the upgrade to V2 Is Not Subtle. Its substantial. Great DAC. Its improvement in the upper mids and highs is causing me to sell my Atma Sphere MA-1s. The highs thru the Ayres are now as crystal clear as they were thru the Spheres.

About three more weeks til I should see the D'Agostino amp. Was chatting with an old friend yesterday. He has listened to a Lot of Wilson speakers over the years. He said the best sound he ever heard from Wilson's was with VTL amplification. He suggested I check out a VTL S-400 II. (Sigh)...

Tomic601 Your opinion makes me wonder just how great a pair of Atma Sphere amps might sound on Vandersteen 7s. I just might prefer my MA-1 3.3s over the Ayres in the mids and highs.

Lots of really good amps out there, yes. But they all sound different. Some significantly different.

Speaking personally... Thanks for the Ypsilon suggestion. They might be Awesome. But I do value long-standing companies or designers, an established dealer network, and will give the tie to products manufactured in the USA. And I am not working on an unlimited budget. I think right now I'm down to a final three. Ayre MX-R Twenties, D'Agostino S-250, or maybe a VTL S-400 II. 

High powered tubes are a long shot, for me. I can't afford a pair of Seigfrieds. I've tried to work a deal to purchase a used S-400, but just learned yesterday that the cost to upgrade one to Series II status is $20K.  And from what khrys says, the S-400 might be inadequate. So it will most likely be solid state in my system. The D'Agostino or the Ayres.

Its probably been close to 20 years now, back when you could actually walk into an audio salon in any major city and listen to a variety of equipment. I remember listening to a pair of B&W 801 Nautilus, a known difficult load at the time, the speaker with the big 15" woofer. I brought a handful of CDs with me and had my amp of choice in the back of my SUV.  I liked what I heard, so I asked if we could listen with my amp. We disconnected a big pair of mono amps and substituted mine. After a listen, the salesman said "That's quite a powerhouse of a little amp there". The amp was a Krell KSA-150. So D'Agostino and I have a little history. Super Stoked to hear the S-250.

The D'Agostino S-250 showed up last night. Finally, after a couple of delays. What a Gorgeous hunk of audio jewellery with a touch of Steampunk. Ayre comparison coming soon.

I've spent a good portion of the past 5 days listening and swapping the D'Agostino S-250 with Ayre MX-R Twenties in my system. The following is what I hear. 

The associated system is a Berkeley Alpha Reference 2 processor feeding the amps directly or thru an Ayre KX-R Twenty preamp. Interconnects are Audioquest WEL Signature or Synergistic Research Element CTS. Speakers driven are Wilson Alexia's and cables are Synergistic Research Galileo LE.

First let me say the Ayre and D'Agostino amps are more similar than different. They are more similar than Audio Research, Pass Labs, Atma Sphere, Krell, all of which I've heard in my system. So their differences are quite small. That said, they are not the same, but differ throughout their presentation.

In the bass, the D'Agostino amp is both meaty and exercises control in the low frequencies. The Ayre is a little more resonant and wooly. Advantage D'Agostino.

In the essential mids, the Ayre amps give an illusion of speed and clarity. The S-250 is richer and fuller. The Ayre images clearly interact within the speaker plane. The D'Agostino amp engulfs the listening arena. My wife made a solid comment. She said the S-250 is rich without being murky.

In the highs, I thought piano thru the Ayre's was the best solid state treble I'd heard. Until I heard the D'Agostino. Its richness extends into the highs with a purity and wholeness. 

One system concern with the highs. The Wilson speaker does not accentuate the highs and neither does the S-250. Combine that with the Spectacular Galileo LE's which also tip toward darkness, and the highs sounded a little subdued. I substituted a set of 7.9 ohm tweeter resistors for the stock 9 ohm set, which should increase the tweeter output by about .5-.6 db. Perfect. The sparkle in the highs returned with flawless integration with the mids.

When I think Ayre, I think clarity, speed, resolution. When I think D'Agostino, I think musical integration. 

So, the verdict, to me, in my system, is that I prefer the harmonic richness and overall musicality of the D'Agostino S-250. I also found no channel separation issues that would make me wish for mono amplifiers.

One negative of the S-250 being a stereo amplifier, is the lack of space on the rear to accommodate large, thick audiophile cables, interconnects, and a power cord. I made it work, but it wasn't easy.

Absolutely. I'm a huge Ayre fan. I preferred the MX- R Twenties to Many other amps, both solid state and tubed. Just, in this case, and in this system, I prefer the D'Agostino S-250 to the Ayres. The differences aren't huge, but they are significant.

The Alexia 2 will be out by the end of the month. It'll be interesting to hear what they're about.

You are exactly on point, o_holter. The Atma Sphere amps were Great. They delivered a level of clarity, in the mids and highs, that I don't think I've heard anywhere else. They simply could not drive the bass on my Alexia's, and that was a system matching problem. Instead of pursuing an impedance matching device, I decided to sell my Atma Spheres and move in another direction.

Hey khrys. I'm not offended or disparaged by your opinion, or any comments on here. I'm a bottom feeder. I know that. And I work on a budget. The top end of my budget when assembling this system was $100K. I have paid full MSRP for One component in my rack, the Berkeley. And only because I Love it, and couldn't find one at a discount. Everything else I have is either dealer demos or used equipment. This philosophy has allowed me to put this together for just over my budget. And I Love the sound of this system. I do intend to try a VTL S-400 II. But only when I can find one for $18K, or less. And Alexia 2s might have to wait 2-3 years. Happy listening to you, too.

Hi khrys,

I love, love, love the D'Agostino S-250. It has Plenty of power, as the power meters have never surpassed about 20 watts in my system. And its hugely musical. I do want to eventually swap in a VTL S-400 II, but the system as presently configured is so alluring that I've pretty much given up equipment upgrades and have been concentrating on the music. 

I've driven the S-250 to great results, both directly with my Berkeley Alpha Reference 2 DAC, and a slightly modified Audio Research Reference 6 preamp.

I have not yet heard the Wilson Alexia 2s. But I do plan to be at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest this coming weekend in Denver. And I see at least one pair of Alexia 2s on the bill...
.

I've found the Audio Research Reference 6 to communicate an unsurpassed level of presence and three-dimensionality while remaining tonally neutral. Class A all the way -- with only some reservations in the high frequencies: a slight lack of richness and sparkle, most easily heard with piano.

I've found several tweaks, when used together, enhance the high frequencies of the Reference 6: first, a Synergistic Research Black Quantum fuse; and second, a Sain Line Systems Pure Current power cord. Those two tweaks on the power-supply side get you 80% there. As a final note, I swapped in a set of matched, cryogenically treated, low-noise 6H30 tubes from Upscale Audio and an NOS Winged "C" 6550C power tube. Now, class A ++, with no reservations.

A new Blue Synergistic fuse is on the way.

Interesting comparison, bar81.  I, too, consider the Ayre Twenty series top-notch. I would not consider them inferior to D'Agostino or Audio Research electronics. Just different. My thoughts have both been documented in this thread, and in another called Ayre vs. Audio Research. My system sounded truly wonderful with all Ayre electronics. And it sounds absolutely magical now, with Audio Research and D'Agostino electronics.

As a proponent of the Synergistic Black fuse in my Audio Research Reference 6, I was curious how the new Blue fuse would sound. Simply put, I do not like it in my system. It's as if some of the energy has been zapped from the presentation, especially in the highs. I'm going back to Black.

Let me say this: I know the components I'm running right now might not be drop-dead neutral. But, Man, that slightly modified Audio Research Reference 6 feeding the D'Agostino Master Audio Systems Momentum S-250 is So Musical. Wow! Even Dan D'Agostino admits that his latest creations don't measure as well in the lab as some of his old Krell stuff. He went for musicality over measurements.

Tweaks, on the other hand, are, well, tweaky. Inconsistent. I probably would be looking for another preamp right now had the Synergistic fuse and the Sain power cord not been so effective. But I did try aftermarket fuses in Ayre amps, when I had them, with little change in sound. I tried a Sain power cord on the D'Agostino. Nope. A little to lean. I went back to the stock cord. So, my experience with tweaks is that what might work well in one component or system might not be beneficial in another.

I remember back, maybe 20-25 years ago, I was considering becoming an electronics engineer. I wanted some feedback from some highly-respected audio companies on specifically what skills they require. I picked up the phone and called Krell. After explaining my desires to a receptionist, she put me directly through to Mr. Dan D'Agostino. He spent 20 minutes on the phone with me and answered all my questions. He didn't have to do that. But he Did. Major respect for Mr. Dan D'Agostino.

I've sold the Ayre equipment, and am currently running a D'Agostino S-250 stereo amplifier. I've found it pretty much has everything. Clarity and Control, along with some harmonic richness. Highly musical. I am completely satisfied. The only amp I really want to hear in my system is a VTL S-400 II.

@gdnrbob The Atma-Spheres were Excellent, especially in the mids and highs. I think they just could not deliver enough current for the sub-2ohm load of my Alexia's in the bass. 

The D'Agostino S-250 is equally excellent, but across the whole frequency spectrum. I Love It. If you can score a used or demo S-200, the cost to upgrade to an S-250, I believe, is $7500. And there is No Comparison between the original D'Agostino M-300 or S-200 vs. the new M-400 or S-250. I'm looking forward to hearing a VTL S-400 II in my system, maybe someday. Will it be better than the D'Agostino?? I don't know.

I heard the Alexia 2s at RMAF. Amazing loudspeakers. Driven by all Nagra electronics, they were truly magical. And that's under show conditions. I understand Wilson has redesigned the crossover in the Alexia 2s to make them more amp friendly in the bass.

@gdnrbob.  
I find it interesting, in theory, that a designer like Ralph Karsten specifically omits the output transformer in his designs (hence the OTL) to eliminate the distortion caused by the induction in an output transformer. Then someone, like Zero Autoformers, creates a transformer in a box to be added to the signal chain to alter the impedance. But the only thing that matters is the sound. Please let us know what you hear if you try some.

There's a gorgeous D'Agostino S-250, 230V,  on Audiogon right now for $23K.
That might be worth running a dedicated 230V circuit for...

I started a separate thread, but has anyone here heard the new Gryphon amplification?  I'm very interested in how they might compare to D'Agostino.