Clipsal: I would say that in theory the best crossover is no crossover, but as you are discovering a design like you are using is highly limited, due mostly to driver technology.
Detail is a function of many things. The drivers, cabinet construction and material, internal wiring, etc. The answer to your question is yes, it is possible for a conventional loudspeaker with crossovers to have as much detail and air as you are finding. The type of crossover and the parts used will certainly influence the transparency and sense of space or air. In our loudspeaker, The Evolution Acoustics, for the most part we are using high purity wire straight from the binding posts to the drivers. It is a true purist crossover. With this being said, there are many different ways to implement a crossover and most designers have their own preference. Of course although I am talking from personal listening experiences, I probably have not heard your speakers.
Integrating a sub-woofer will almost certainly kill the purity and cohesiveness you are hearing. I would call the designer of your speakers and asked if he has had any luck combining a sub with your speakers.
Good Luck!
Jonathan Tinn
Evolution Acoustics |
Crossovers are easily both the most important, yet least understood are of loudspeaker design. In my opinion, this is the reason there are so few truly good sounding loudspeakers on the market.
My opinion of crossoverless loudspeakers (apart from drivers that are meant to be used as such - Lowther, AER, Fostex, etc.) is that there is a tremendous amount of energy and extension missing in the presentation. This experience comes from both DIY and commercially available designs. Normally, this implementation uses a capacitor on the tweeter leg - necessary to protect this driver.
The addition of an inductor on the woofer leg solves the problem in restoring the energy, power, and drive. From the perspective of my feeble mind, and in probably not giving it enough thought, it's counterintuitive. But, you can't argue with tangible results.
I will say that I agree with the designer's removal of the resistor in his crossover. Even the very BEST resistors really damage the sound, and those that are less than the best (which most of the best speakers use) are even far, far worse. Of course, you have to balance this decision with the fact that most tweeters are more sensitive than most woofers, but one can make it a point to pair two drivers of similar sensitivity (easier said than done). |
Small 6-7 inch woofers roll off somewhere near 2000 Hz, so why bother with an inductor. Just use a capacitor to pick up the tweeter where the woofer dies.
Lousy idea, except for real cheap speakers. The woofer doesn't die peacefully at 2000 Hz. At this frequency and above it exhibits wild peaks and valleys as the cone breakup happens. The purpose of the inductor is to shut the woofer up before it starts misbehaving,
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'The main driver is a custom-built 8" unit of our own design mated to the Neo ribbon. At 43" x 11" x 14" HxWxD, the dimensions are deliberately living-room friendly while the combination of piano-gloss lacquer on the sides, real black leather on top and front and exotic red Jarrah wood for the scoop will appeal to even jaded interior decorators.'
WOW- those speakers are $19,000?
Are they the most expensive crossover less speaker in the World? I've seen lots of those sort of speakers for sale, but none near the lofty heights of yours. Were they made by Viscount Linley?
I've not heard them so cannot pass comment on their sound quality. |
The best crossover being no crossover is indeed a good theory. And I have a pair of speakers that prove the theory has become fact. So I can believe what Clipsal is saying.
Whenever a big advance comes along there are always "experts" on hand to explain in lofty and technical terminology why it cannot possibly work.
If eventually the "experts" are forced to relax their objections to a novel speaker technology, someone else will appear to lament that they are not available in Peruvian Feathered Scrub Oak veneer, or that they don't stand on the optimum number of spikes, or the binding posts aren't thick enough or they are too thick. Or the speakers aren't tri-ampable because they are a two-way. There's always a problem if you aren't a Recommended Component.
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Macrojack...Let's not argue about how your speakers sound, but a speaker lacking a crossover is hardly novel technology. Once upon a time they were all that way. |
Eldartford - Right you are. Crossoverless design was the original approach. Originally speakers were used for speech and did not require much bandwidth. Later when music reproduction inevitably emerged as a goal, greater frequency extension was sought and multiple driver designs were attempted. The crossover (deal with the devil) was invented to assign frequency ranges to specialized drivers called woofers and tweeters.
In recent years successful wide bandwidth drivers have become available enabling certain progressive manufacturers to eliminate crossovers or move them to the extremes of the frequency range.
While this works very well in some cases, it has been rejected out of hand by many audiophiles. Go figure. |
Clipsal- what is the bass performance like with your speakers? |
Not bad, it's tight but lacks sufficient bass to balance out the speaker. I've heard these speakers matched to a 300B amplifier and a matching active Sub-Woofer from the same manufacturer and thought it sounded excellent. The sound was very detailed, intimate and plenty of punch where it was needed the most. |
Clipsal - It seems that you already have your answer. Buy that sub and cross it over as low as you can. |
Maybe this is a silly question, but what speakers are we talking about here? |
Nevermind I see the speaker type in your system.. |
Gallo speakers either have no crossover or for the reference 3.1 only has a high pass filter at 120HZ for the larger woofer. |
Hi Clipsal- let me say your speakers look absolutely gorgeous.
I am a fan of crossover less speaker designs. I have seen the website and they claim a frequency down to 27hz. My crossover less speakers (Nagaoka BLH with Fostex 6" FE168Sigma)are about the same dimensions and do not go anywhere near that figure
(I would guess). Adding the sub would give that added oomph and depth, thats what I have done. They must have a very good to excellent WAF. Its another speaker to add to the 'must have a listen to' list.
Ps WHT have an even bigger version with 12" cone at a mind boggling $45000! |
