Well if transparency, attack, along with warmer less pinched harmonics are real rules in audio, than that is what you can gain going with a GOOD crossoverless speaker systems, but not all even if they claim this can do it in the real world...
I owned Dynaudio, Jm labs, and klipsch, along with some Custom 7 ft line arrays before my current speakers which are crossoverless.
The top of the Highs, and the bottom of the lows are always an issue when going into any single driver Full range crossoverless speaker. Mostly these designs are best known for fast, articulate, full midband and voicing, kinda how Cardas Cables, and Tubes get their reputations.
A few ways to correct frequency extension of these designs at the top and bottom is of course to either horn load them, or come up with some specialized boxes to more standard vented, or sealed cabinets to still get resonable response out of them, or build around the FRD with very fast subwoofers and/or supertweeter systems to integrate and extend the sound further.
Bottom line is that you can find some FRD Crossoverless systems that will blow your doors off and you will not go back, or some that are pretty normal just like most dynamic drive tiered crossover systems (3 way, 2 way, etc..) And this finally comes down to money, yes the best ones will cost quite a bit more money, but the used market has some pretty cool designs that don't cost a fortune to get your feet wet, such as the Zu Druid, or the Omega speaker lines, but if you want no holds barred than they will cost substantially more money...
A new one that I know is coming out soon is the Zu Audio Presence at 6 k a pair if that helps you out. In theory that should approch 90 or 95% of the best Crossoverless speakers can offer, however it is augmented by dual 10" woofers on an Active crossover amplifier, and a supertweeter for the super airy extended highs. |
Okay I will admit that I have Zu affiliated in my house!! I have owned their products for the last couple years.
Ha, yeah well who knows.. Believe it or not I am starting to see that it is very well exposed Zu is getting extremely successful, and it is starting to not make too much sense to many dealers and audio advocates as of late..
Huge backlash, this is very similar to how Odyssey audio especially with the Stratos Amp was treated a few years back, they are taking money from the bigger competition or direct competition now its like stopping a freight train..
Unfortunately this gets directly tagged to the product being not capable of holding its own, to bad, many miss opportunities. Oh well, just remember where and how to get the best value and sound you know how to whoever you are and we will all be okay.
By the way what I love about the Zu backlash is that nobody Can match the facts they put their product out there with a 60 day NO problem audition, this is still too hard to choke down they have such confidence, and realistically was the only reason I gave them a shot all hype, all B.S online quibbles aside, and they proved themselves, not the customers on this forum.
And by the way as to the argument of whether the above member Macrojack could benefit, I understand that this is a sticky situation, but don't hold it against Zu they don't police what some of their customers seem to throw out in public forums, they are busy making real products for people who care. This is a very rare case for sure... And somebody giving a suggestion due to the original thread is asking EXACTLY about a product we are speaking still validates an opinion dealer or not. |
Duke, I understand.. I did not disagree, just stating the unfortunate side effects that seem to hurt the original fact this thread was of " Crossoverless" speaker designs, and seems that always some specific manufacture is mentioned and gets thrown under the bus, and there is no supporting evidence of one posters motive or not.
Everybody assumes, and thats dangerous, and if it truly is that much of a concern than somebody needs to contact the manufacture themselves, such as audiogon if they feel it needs to be a rectified situation...
Again this is a pretty dilluted and truly a grey area of the accusations being made, I can sit here and say all day I don't mind somebody coming and taking a look at my Sony new H-D Panel, and ultimately help sony out, but guess what they will still have to go to Sony to do the deal.. By the way that sold a few T.Vs for Best buy, I can tell you for real I have done such a thing.
Now because Zu might offer him a free pair of cables or something after finding out and making a sale for letting somebody come to his home to audition their product is really not in my mind a very serious violation of Dealer/owner/audiogon member confidence agreement..Again I doubt he cares about any gain from Zu in this case, and seems he has none at this point.
I think a mountain was made out of a molehill, and in the end just hurts the product and did not just push the intention of slapping a member on the wrist. |
"10-02-07: Mrtennis
i have heard zu speakers several times at ces. what is the big deal ? the overall sound seems to be to emphasize the treble. they are very unforgiving.
Mrtennis (Threads | Answers) "
And you never will get the deal, so what? I owned panels, horns, trans lines, Line arrays, Sub sat systems.. Hi efficiency, Low efficiency.. Whatever.. Guess what your music taste, or what you need does not demand the attributes of a Zu speaker or any other than a low output Electrostat speaker, so be it. But trust me with many of the recordings I have I expect very real, very visceral impact and Zero Breakup with dynamic and low level details. So most of the speakers I hear are veiled, Or are Two thinned out and "Live" sounding, or simply can't keep up.. Here is the exact point where Zu bridges the gap closer than any other from one extreme of Panels or Ribbons, to the other extreme of horns..
A current review below on the new Quad ESL's, and exactly why they might be great for somebody looking to get a recording to sound nice, but not for somebody looking for limitless expectations to cover everything. Just realize your different in that your requirements simply make you different, but that does not mean others don't understand your world, you just don't seem to necessarily understand theirs, so whos at a disadvantage here in the end? Bottom line why the big deal about Zu?
Because when push comes to shove they can run circles in many areas around other " acoustic transducers " I am not putting this in for argument sake, but I am simply answering your question. By the way most people do not require EXTREME extension like a concert venue, so be it, but for those that want that capability in home.. Well thats Zu's market not yours. Their are many fine speakers, but finding the one with as close to everything as possible sometimes is more important to one over the other.
"The ESL 2905 does not like loud music. If you don't either, you're in business. At about 98dB/1 meter, the 2905 thinks it's time to close shop and shut down. As sound pressure builds up towards this 98dB threshold, there's a terrible sonic fallout at first. It's like a damaged CD where samples fail. If you ignore these early warnings and fail to immediately turn down the volume, the Quad protection system will taker over and shut you down. Too bad, you've played too loud. However, a German magazine documented that using 5 ESLs in a surround setting can produce enough SPLs to blow your mind or eardrums." |
" don't like to suffer. for those who do, buy the zu speakers."
You are right, I noticed your always even trying to tame your system further with your inquiries on this forum alone, seems you will never find your holy grail.
Always blaming CD players, Tube types etcÂ… Look at your track record seriously posting, so now you think that its also due to the speaker or specific cables? I mean you basically disagree with everything on any product here and say they are bright. So your credibility on this issue I am sorry but does not count anymore, because its actually a very solvable problem, you just don't seem to have the understanding to do it.
It seems you will never get the Zero High frequency sound you desire. Or you would not keep posting asking for super warm slow as molasses components, which tells me your still not all that happy with even the ESLs supposed perfect performance.
I am serious in this suggestion, No offense, try a good clock radio, because unfortunatley seeing your posting history you lose a lot of credibility to your statements as basically every single product even ones you finally purchase are too "Bright" and your always still searching...
Also rooms are horrible to just about every speaker I encounter, all can be bright, but no not all Dissapate with less directionality to help cover that up better like some panels no doubt. But it can be done.
Good luck |
Okay, I accept that "YOU DON'T OWN THEM".. You said it, so obviously you just wanted to get a response on a thread that had nothing to do with you observation anyway.
Actually this conversation had nothing to do with the sound of a product, but you decided to ask and yes BASH the product, I mean if saying your sorry for any Zu owners being they are horribly not balanced and will never hear real music is not out of left field bashing than I don't know what is... It warranted a response, regardless that it actually has ZERO to do with any of the issues on this thread till you decided to start it with such comments.
So why not buy quads since you don't have them? I mean you feel they clearly "STOMP" specific things you never owned or really experienced in a correct setup, Why feel sorry for owners of every other component on this website as you state? Yet still like to question ones that do own them, and then don't accept the answers when you decided to ask the question?
It seems you actually have interest in a weird way to have it proved to you, I respect your opinion, but at the same time many things can shock you trust me... And properly setup components you have bias against might prove you are a little overstated in your extreme views from point A to B.
And just a little clue, most components can exhibit a extra energy in the upper midrange/lower treble, this is so common its silly.. And on another thread I was involved you basically dis-regard room and acoustics completley in trade for the right "Dark sounding" speaker, so in that case you are not going to ever hear these items at their best including your own. |
Mrtennis, Trust me were friends.. I have no issue.. Only point was I did not get the outright statement that had ZERO to do with the issue about this guy being a dealer or not,you just decided to attack for whatever reason something that just added to a topic not even part of it, not sure what the agenda is, but its cool we all move on :
"10-01-07: Mrtennis
hi macrojack:
the quad esl stomps on the zu speakers. no cone design ever has or ever will be timbrally less inaccurate.
if you want to attain a very realistic presentation of an instrument, there is no better way than the original quads, especially 4 of them." |
