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Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp

Hello everyone, I have question that I hope some of you either can answer or have an opinion on. Ever since I was 17, I have always wanted to own Audio Research equipment. I’m 56 now, and finally was able to fulfill my life long dream. My first acquisition was an ARC LS15 pre-amp bought here used in mint condition. I paired it with a Vincent 331MK hybrid amp also bought here used in mint condition. The resulting sound was impressive. After that, I started looking for an ARC amp I could afford. The resulting search found me an ARC VS115 amp also here in used, awesome condition. This is where my problems and my doubts started. Upon hooking up the amp to my system, a tube in the left channel arced and blew a resistor. I had to take the amp to an ARC dealer and he installed a new resistor and suggested I buy all new tubes from ARC for the amp. I did and when I got back home, I again hooked up the amp and immediately upon turning the amp on, I started to hear thumping sounds coming from my left speaker, then, two left channel output tubes started to glow a very bright orange, and then white smoke started to rise from one of the tube sockets. I immediately turned the amp off. I called the dealer and he suggested I mail the unit back to ARC. I did and I am now waiting to see what they say.

During this time, I started to search out other brands and came across one called PrimaLuna. I have watched their videos and seen them compared to ARC equipment. Their build quality seems to be superior to ARC and the reviews are over the top. I am looking at their Dialogue Premium HP amp and their Dialogue Premium pre-amp. For what they cost, considering how they are built and supposedly sound compared to units costing 3 to 4 times their price, they almost seem too good to be true. Anyway, my bubble has been burst, and in simple terms, I am considering jumping ship and going with another company instead of ARC, despite all those years of drooling and waiting.

My main question is this, is there anyone out there that either owns PrimaLuna or has had experience with the equipment and can give me their opinion on owning and using it. Then, my second question is how does PrimaLuna really compare to other high end equipment such as ARC. Kevin Deal in his videos on PrimaLuna makes a very compelling case for the equipment. In one video, he compares an ARC LS17SE to the PrimaLuna pre-amp.

My last question is in regards to my ARC VS115 amp problems. Anyone have an opinion on what is going on with my amp or a VS115 in general. For those of you who want to know what else is in my system, I am using KEF 104ab speakers, a Cambridge Azur 752BD Blu-ray player as my CD player, Morrow Audio Cables and I am considering getting the Sony HAP-Z1ES music player for my digital files.

I greatly appreciate all who take the time to comment and give their opinions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask or provide additional. Thanks for your help. Steve.


128x128skyhawk51
pops
2,273 posts
 
Interesting thread, I will only add that when you retire you get a different perspective on pricing.  Fortunately I did well to get my system where it is while I worked. 

I cannot see myself shelling out big money like before.   But I've only been retired 15 months so the possibility of relapsing is still very real.  YIKES!



nkonor
635 posts
 
pops,

I agree on all this pricing stuff. This back surgery may force me into retirement even though I do not want to. Like my job, coworkers and the company. Maybe just seasonal; which would be OK.

 I did finally get to sit in the sweet spot this weekend; after (7-8) months of not being able to.

Yes, you missed that Forte' 50w CL A. Still love my 75w CL A monos. Rarely see them; the preamps are worth grabbing too. They were a ridiculous bargain.

Sounds like "prof" is having a good time with his Thiel 2.7s..

I would like one (1) more Great TT and maybe a pair of Rockports.

"It's not over, till the Fat Lady sings"

Best Wishes 
Norb
ljs_fin
14 posts
 

While I would never claim that line stage preamps are interchangeable, I agree with Kevin Deal where he indicates that most of the top preamps sound pretty good. Roger Modjeski, when addressing my audiophile society, noted that high quality line stage preamps are something that manufacturers should have under control, the principles being well understood.

One of the posters above asserted repeatedly that the top of the line PrimaLuna preamp generates considerable second harmonic distortion. I have not seen any measurements to back this up. If anyone has a reference, please post it. Stereophile very recently reviewed the ProLogue Premium preamp, measuring primarily second harmonic distortion ranging from 0.1% to 0.31% depending on output level. This preamp has a list price of $2,199 and is not the top of the line model.

I own the Dialog Premium Preamp, the current top of the line, which I bought used from a private party. I use it single-ended into a Pass Labs XA30.8 power amp. This combination works great and sounds fantastic. The preamp is dead quiet, with no hum or noise, and the stock tubes are very neutral. Is the DPP state of the art? I’m honestly not sure if that is my objective. But from my perspective this preamp is flawless and I do not plan to replace it for a long time. 

I did try vintage Philips rectifier tubes, but didn't continue with them because in my system the resulting sound has a bit too much of the warmth traditionally associated with tubes. Some people love this type of sound but it ultimately comes down to preference.


kot
132 posts
 
@samzx12 I dont really recall which PL, model but it was awhile ago, yes , so could be that PL really has improved their designs :) ...Rogue Audio integrates need modifying to sound their best ... their top of line black monoblocks at 15 grand (i think) are fantastic as well, easily competing with anyone’s top amps at any price, BUT once again only when modded to use EL 34 & KT 77 , IMHO of course :)
fsonicsmith's avatar
fsonicsmith
938 posts
 
Roger Modjeski, when addressing my audiophile society, noted that high quality line stage preamps are something that manufacturers should have under control, the principles being well understood.
Not that I have Mr. Modjeski's credentials (de nada, I'm a lawyer who can't replace a house electrical box switch), but I agree with him.That said, there's a huge difference between a "high quality" preamp and one that delivers that elusive magical quality that many of us lust for. Charles Hansen gave Sasha Matson of S'Phile an interview published in the July 2016 issue and he describes what I am referring to best (sorry for the long quote but anything shorter fails to convey the point);

SM: At this point, is the tired old debate of solid-state vs tubes over?

CH: Yes and no. It kind of goes back to the best of times and the worst of times. There are two different things going on. There's the surface, and what is underneath the surface. On the surface, things have been converging for a long time, and that's what you read about. But then there are some writers that talk about what is under the surface. When you read something from Art Dudley or Herb Reichert, they aren't talking about soundstaging or imaging or resolution—or all these terms that first [J.] Gordon Holt [founder of Stereophile] and then Harry Pearson [founder of The Abso!ute Sound] came up with. What it boils down to is that when you listen to music, it makes you feel a certain way, and that's why you listen to it. It's not because it sounds a certain way. And how do you talk about your feelings? So the sound of tubes and the sound of transistors have been converging—but what about the feeling?

I didn't really understand it for a long time. When I first made the Ayre MX-R amps and KX-R preamp, I thought, Okay we've done it. We've made stuff that is so good it's as good as tubes—why would you bother with tubes? But I would still get customers and manufacturers who would say, "Yeah, that's nice, but I'm still sticking with my tube piece, because you haven't got there yet." And one of my weaknesses, for better or worse, is that I have such a big ego, I don't have to listen to other kit. I just listen to my own designs. If I had, I would have known what they were talking about.

When we made the KX-R Twenty, we took all our ideas we had been working on for 20 years, and getting feedback from people who were able to teach me how to listen better, and what to listen for—20 years of hard work. And then I hooked up the KX-R Twenty and I went, "Holy cow! This is what they were talking about. No wonder they didn't want to listen to solid-state—this is what they wanted to hear." It just hit me: This is what all those tube nuts were talking about. I would send stuff off to these dyed-in-the-wool tube guys, and they would say, "Nope, it's gotta have a tube in it or it's never going to work right. No, it's just sand. How can it sound right?"


Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/charley-hansen-wizard-boulder#yIxjlPqiVQzUfxSQ.99

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