Connecting I-pod to Integrated Amplifiers

Marco -

I am a regular 6 Moons reader. I simply chose the other article but I am glad you are exposing people to this one as well.

I don't think we disagree about much - but we seem to be coming at this from somewhat different points of view.

What I find exciting is that there is a sea change going on. All the details are not apparent but there is no doubt that things are changing. How do I know - well for the past year I have personally posted perhaps 150 responses to people who are curious about how to use the new digital stuff in their systems. Since all of these posts are on AGon and AudioAsylum (under xmasparty@mac.com) I assume that they are people who are at least somewhat concerned with creating good sound.

Here is the article in which Srajan addresses it - recommended reading for people getting into this area.

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/harddrive/harddrive.html

Once again I find it startling that the reviewer in the article you selected is comparing a $400 unit to a $4,000 CD player. Generally one hopes that 10x buys you something more... I think that what is happening again and again is that these new 'consumer level' pieces are forcing people to re-examine their expectations about what their money will buy.

People who were never going to spend $4,000 on a CD player like the one mentioned in the article are delighted when they discover how much they can get for a few hundred dollars. I think that is the impetus for the original post - how do I hook my iPod into my system.

I think that part of it is audio quality - how much better is good enough, and the other part of it is a whole new metaphor for using their music. Read the posts - people who are doing this are listening to more music and more of their libraries. This may not be the ultimate audiophile concern, but IMHO it is the reason most people buy gear.

What we are seeing is Moore's Law at work - and the blurring of the traditional CE industry imposed lines between good, better, best. It seems increasingly likely that someone who buys a $500 or $1,000 or $1,5000 CD player and puts it up next to an iPod will most likely be disappointed by the performance of the CD player - both in terms of the sound and the value for the money it provides...

The implication for the audio industry is that there are 15,000,000 plus new iPod owners who will not be buying CD players for much longer because this iPod or the next one surpasses anything they ever heard. (same effect as we have seen with digital cameras)

I worked on the original introduction of the CD to the retail music industry back in the 80's. No one will argue that CDs - especially then - were better then vinyl. But the ease, the form factor and the pleasing albeit artificial sound spelled the immediate end of tape and an enormous decline in vinyl sales. In truth, most people though that they were hearing the music for the first time because it cost less then ever to get "good sound". That is what is happening now as well.

From my personal perspective, with my modded Squeezeboxes and USB to DAC systems I am getting better sound then I could otherwise afford - along with a whole list of features that are simply unavailable in traditional gear. I have similar hopes for the modded iPod I am expecting in the mail next week. In short, I am a happy guy, and since I enjoy writing I am trying to make it easy for others to try it themselves.

I totally respect the fact that there are people here like you who have spent years perfecting their systems and educating their ears. And that such people will not find the iPod a satisfying solution. (In fact we agree that its not the home unit of choice.)

But my thesis is that for every person like you, there are many more who are being blown away. There is no putting this genie back in the bottle.

Grakesh -

There are two audio outputs on most iPods. The headphone jack is lower level (Vms) and can be controlled on the iPod. As Goatwuss has written, its less then ideal, even though its very convenient in a stand alone application.

What is audibly better is the jack on the bottom. It is higher level (Vms). But there is no gain control - which is what you have an integrated amp for...

A lot of people are making plugs for that, here are a few:

Nyko Stereo link which includes 6' ICs

The Sendstation Pocket Dock which provides both a mini and a Firewire plug so you can run the iPod from AC

The SIK din which provides similar functionality in a little different form factor

There is a tweak audiophile version without the power provision called the Turbodock

http://www.fixup.net/talk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1499

Finally, take a look at Drew at Moon Audio's solution which offers a hardwired plug that can be terminated in RCAs. www.moonaudio.com then select "Headphone and Portable cables" and scroll down to see what he's been up to. I have not heard it but I think its very appealing for what is effectively a permanent installation.

You do need to make sure you are using lossless files. Take a look at this article to find out just how good this can sound...

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/hipod/hipod.html

Once you get the bug, take a look at the mod Vinnie Rossi is doing to the iPod - if you are considering this you will probably want to stay with a 1/8" plug cabling solution.

http://www.redwineaudio.com/iMod.html

BTW I totally disagree with Bignerd and Sfar - attention to detail matters, cable is such a detail. It is as important when you are using an iPod as a source as it is with any other source. Why would it not matter?

best,
ck

Marco -

You know, this article is kind of like a party trick - neat but why bother. Where we may differ is that I find it pretty amazing that a reviewer would go out on a limb and say that a iPod sounds decent through a high resolution system. Seems to me if it was a crappy source it would sound pretty bad in that kind of rig.

Truth is there are a lot of advantages to going digital - IMHO you can get to really good sound for a very reasonable price. If you want to go that route I recommend a SLIM Squeezebox. A modded one from Vinnie or Wayne at Bolder sounds pretty damn good - I know, I have one of each.

To be sure, in my house, I'm not going to use an iPod as a source (though I keep a cable if a friend drops by with something to share.) But that is what the original poster asked for help with, so that's what I focused on.

But here's a for instance that makes lots of sense to me. You want something mobile. Something where the whole kit and caboodle - source, media, power supply, cabling fits in your pocket...

Maybe because you like to travel with headphones on planes. Maybe you have a cabin or n my case, a boat. In this set up, the iPod can play a pretty cool role and deliver very good sound. Properly set up it will at the very least equal a thousand dollar plus CD player. (Something I would have no room for aboard, much less a couple of hundred albums.)

That to me is a good use of technology, and at least for me a good reason to have Vinnie do an iMod.

But I'm with you. At home with a big honking set of speakers and all the stuff it takes to make them go, I'm just not going to use an iPod because I can do it better using a different approach. For not much more money...

As you might suspect, the real reason I threw the 6Moons article in was because I think its startling - and there are a lot of people who seem to need to be startled before they consider new possibilities and solutions.

I suppose we'll just have to wait for some modder to come along and give us a digital out we can send along to our DACs... now would you prefer USB, Toslin or SPDIF LOL

BTW I also ran a Waveterminal for a long time - when I got my G5 I finally switched over to a high end Toslink