Confused About Relative Sonic Impact of DAC VS. Transport

. . . not that I favor harsh-sounding CDs. The point is, as many undoubtedly know, R2R ladder DACs are not renowned for being overly "clinical/analytical". 

mooglie-- what is it about the Belden that you believe might be helpful ? 

millercarbon; I think perhaps you misunderstand me. I'm not pursuing an existential question, here; I'm trying to ascertain which component(s)  is/are responsible for the change in my system's sound, so I can make adjustments. 

If I don't know how each component is affecting the overall sound, the process of making adjustments is very difficult. . . akin to tossing (insert food item of your choice) against a wall to see which one will stick. 

Is the increased resolution of the Heed transport uncovering unappealing aspects of CDs that the Jolida did not reveal?

Did the Jolida disguise to some degree the inherent character of the DAC in a way that the Heed is not?

My goal is to replace the aging Jolida with a transport and maintain the sound I've been enjoying; I belive this is consistent with going with "what engages and satisfies (me) musically", to borrow your terminology! 

elizabeth: thanks for your suggestions. 

1) Heed transport is used and very well broken-in
2) AC power happens to be very clean
3) You could, however, be onto something with the cable-- I'm using a cheap Blue Jeans coax. I will try another cable.

lowrider: re: jitter, I have an Empirical Audio Synchromesh re-clocker in the system.

I've tried various footers under the Heed transport and haven't had much luck because each CD I play sounds so different. One type of footer may improve the presentation with one CD only to make a different CD sound worse. Maybe this equates to fun for some-- not so much for me. 

I do agree that the Jolida was affecting the sound, as there was much greater consistency from one CD to the next. 

I've borrowed a Cardas coax to try instead of the inexpensive Blue Jeans coax I've been using and will see how that affects the system.

Elizabeth-- to be honest, I have no idea how long it's been since the Heed was regularly used but I'd guess at least several months. . 

steakster: I have a Wells Audio majestic integrated-- definitely on the warm side and runs in class A for the first (?) watts (don't recall). It definitely doesn't sound "thin". I was using a Jolida tube integrated and I tried a few SS state units that all sounded thin and sterile (including Parasound Halo, which is supposed to be great). The Wells is excellent.

I'm very sensitive to bright cables. I'm using Audio Art SC-5 SE speaker and what was, a couple years ago, Audio Art's top of the line Power cables. IC's are Audioquest Cheetahs. The cable from Synchromest to DAC is Steve's own bnc. 

No-- I'm not using power cond. A friend who was a PS Audio dealer brought over one of their big regeneration units and it made no audible improvement. He said I said "really clean" power.

This doesn't mean that "backwash" isn't occurring. How does one deal with this issue?

steakster: oops-- typo-- should read: he said I HAD "really clean power". 

mooglie: 

The challenge of retaining detail without fatigue and warmth without congestion is a familiar one, but my approach has always been to sacrifice detail for liquidity. Because my ears are really sensitive to highs,  I suspect I'm probably more content with a less articulate top end than many others. 

Having said that, when I first put the Heed into the system, the first thing I noticed was increased detail. And I really liked it! It wasn't until I'd done a lot of listening that I gradually became aware that the sound was, in fact, fatiguing. Funny how the brain can be so fixated on X that it doesn't even register the presence of Y.  

I will have to pull out the paperwork on my power cords (Audio Art's top of the line at the time of purchase), as I don't recall their metallurgical composition. I remember that they were available in two different configurations and the first one I tried resulted in what I can only describe as "smearing", so I went with the other and have been happy with them. 

The Audioquest Cheetah IC's are silver and worked very well when the Jolida was acting as transport. Maybe I ought to try switching THEM out. 

As it happens, I'm familiar with the Audio Bacon coax shoot-out. The adjectives the reviewer employed for the cable I've ordered: "liquid, dense and weighty, bloom-y, almost tube like, warmth that's more gold than silver", etc. all suggest a potential for compensating for what I'm currently not liking about the system.To what degree it will compensate remains to be heard. A buddy loaned me a Cardas coax which sounds only somewhat better to me than the Blue Jeans. I'm hoping the A.Art will have much greater impact.

If it does not, I'll consider trying a different power cable for the DAC. 

I may also try another transport. The Simaudio Neo 260T is in my price range and Sim has agreed to let me return it with no penalty if I don't like it. 

Finally, I am painfully aware that some CDs sound better than others. I  weed out the worst offenders as well as research which masterings are thought to be best.  


jbmack75: the thought of simplifying the equation and going back to a CDP has certainly crossed my mind ,lately. . . and more than once ! 

However, it seems likely that I will end up with a server once whatever I'm using to spin discs bites the dust, so hanging on to the DAC seems fiscally prudent, rather than selling it at a loss. 

steakster: my system does indeed sound sweet with the Jolida CDP functioning as transport. 

My aim in replacing the Jolida, which is about 10 years old, with a dedicated transport was to prolong my ability to spin CDs.  I have no desire to burn all my discs and interface with my system via a tablet. I guess I'm old-fashioned-- I like physical media.

However, replacing the Jolida with the Heed has taken me far far away from the enjoyment I was accustomed to with the Jolida.

I'm beginning to feel like I'm tying myself up in knots in an effort to make the Heed work. Maybe it's just not the right component and I should try a different transport-- the simaudio 260T, for example. 










 

lowrider; I can certainly try that but I won't have another quality digital cable until the middle of next week. Thanks for the suggestion.

lowrider: sorry-- didn't see your question. . . I'm using the stock wall-wart.

sdl42-- No but I can see if I can borrow one. 

itzhak-- I have one more coax to try next week, then I will order the sim transport. I've wanted to try the 260T for quite some time but until yesterday, was unable to locate a dealer willing to offer a return policy on it. BTW; how long was the "long" break-in ? ? ? 

lowrider57-- No dedicated lines. I have two outlets and an audiophile power strip at my disposal. To be honest, I never paid attention to what was plugged in, where. It could very well be that analogue and digital are "currently" mixed up. Components are sitting on a fairly massive, built-in book shelf unit, not a rack, which means I have certain limitations regarding cable arrangement but I will definitely see what I can do about this. 

In terms of footers, I've tried old-style Stillpoints, Cardas blocks, EdenSound brass and nothing under the Heed and none of these have yielded consistent improvement, as CD SQ with the Heed is all over the place. I haven't tried mass-loading. 

I'm using the same Audio Art power cord on DAC, Integrated and Transport. I can ask my dealer friend what I might be able to borrow. 
Good power cables are not exactly cheap and as the Heed is the only transport I've tried, so far, I'm reluctant to invest a lot of money into the system to accommodate it, without trying another transport first. 

itzhak1969: thank you

twoleftears: the limiting factor, other than my budget, is the fact that I'm only willing to buy what I can return. RE: Bel Canto transports, reviews I've read have characterized them as being on the bright side, which is definitely not the direction I'd want to go. I briefly considered buying the old Bel Canto transport with the top-loading pro2 drive,built like a tank,  but the seller offered no returns and I wasn't willing to gamble, especially given what I'd read in reviews about the sound. 

mooglie: they are rhodium. I'd originally purchased the gold version but the sound was smeared with the Jolida in the system and Rob Fritz let me exchange them for rhodium. My system was really nice sounding until I replaced the Jolida with the Heed. An audiophile buddy with a very expensive vinyl system said mine was the only digital system he'd heard that he actually enjoyed. If Jolida was still making the JD100, I's just buy another as a back-up. Too late for that, now and Jolida no longer has any drives in stock.

itzhak1969-- per your advice, I was able to re-arrange cables. 

Now the integrated has its own own audiophile outlet to itself

The other outlet is supplying the DAC and the Cullen Power Box.

I've got the Transport and the 2 wall warts (for the Synchro-mesh re-clocker and Schitt Loki EQ) plugged into the Cullen. 

My first impression, having listened to several good-sounding CDs I habitually  use for evaluation purposes, is that the SQ is now smoother than it was before the cable re-arrangement. In fact, the sound of these CDs is now very close to what it was with the Jolida.  

I will have to do more listening to verify this impression, but it seems promising. ;o)

mooglie: in response to your suggestion that I might need "more copper in the system" I've ordered a set of Audio Art Statement IC's.

Although some CDs responded well to running analogue and digital cables to separate outlets, I'm still hearing fatiguing highs with other CDs that were not evident with the Jolida. 

Perhaps swapping out the silver Audioquest IC's will address this.   

. . . or was it lowrider57 who first suggested separating digital and analogue cables? I'm starting to lose track of who's said what. Whomever it was, I appreciate the suggestion. 

Good morning, lowrider57:

Thanks for recommending Swagman. Their units are certainly more affordable than others I've looked at. Still, I'll have to see how things shake out. I hadn't anticipated having to buy new IC's and my budget for audio is relatively modest. 

I'm not going to bend over backwards in order to accommodate the Heed, especially knowing that I can order the Sim 260T and return it if I'm not happy. Yes; I realize there are a variety of  transports out there, but I'll only consider purchases that include a return policy. Demoing gear in showrooms is a form of gambling I can't afford.  

Thanks again for your input. 

itzhak: for most of the Jolida's lifetime, I used it as a CDP, which meant its tubed preamp influenced the system's sound. Furthermore, I used it for many years in conjunction with a tubed Jolida integrated, so you'll  understand how brighter cabling was appropriate. 

Replacing the Jolida integrated with the Wells SS only improved the system. Likewise, when I added the Aqua Dac and began using the Jolida CDP solely as a transport, everything was still very well balanced. In fact, it was the best sound I'd ever achieved. 

It wasn't until I introduced the Heed transport into this system that problems arose. I'm willing to try some different cables, but if that doesn't 
work, I'll abandon the Heed and try the Sim 260T. 

Resolution is not and has never been, my top priority. More than any-thing, at this point, my aim is to extend my capacity to spin CDs.
Given the age of the Jolida and since I already have a nice DAC, it made sense to me to look for a transport, rather than a CDP.  Although I enjoy the added detail presented by the Heed, I'm rapidly losing patience with trying to compensate for its rather analytical character. if new cabling doesn't do the trick, I'll move on to the Sim. I can only hope the latter is less extreme in terms of resolution!

Ordered a pair of copper Audio Art Statement IC's today.

Will report back once I've listened to the A.Arts' in the system. 

  If they don't tame the Heed's penchant for uncovering sonic nasties,
I'll order the Sim.

Have decided to order the Sim 260DT to try out.

Just started running in Sim. Right away, the thin, overly bright sound I heard with the Heed is gone. I've since found out the previous owner was using it in a tube-powered system, which makes more sense.

The presentation is much more robust. PRaT is very good. Needless to say, this is just an initial impression. We'll see how it develops. Monday, the copper IC's are due to arrive and they'll be compared to the silver Audioquests.  

Have decided to keep Moon transport. Thanks to all who offered suggestions on this thread ! 

bigkidz1: I agree. Trying things out is the only way. Anyone who says transports don't affect tone is sorely mistaken, in my opinion. The SQ difference between the Moon and the Heed in this regard was huge-- nearly as stark as the difference between COS and Metrum DACs I demo'd a while back. 

I decided to go with The Cable Company to demo IC's and it's turned out to be a very positive experience-- so much so that I'd heartily recommend them to anyone shopping for cables.  I've ordered Acoustic Zen Silver Reference. Plenty of resolution without fatiguing highs, terrific PRaT and most important of all (to me) -- compelling emotional engagement of the sort that makes me not want to leave the listening chair. I've heard folks  enthuse about "rediscovering their music collection" and now I can relate to that. Thanks to the Silver Reference and the Moon, my system's made a big jump in terms of getting out of the way of the music. 

junzhang10: thanks but I'm old fashioned-- I grew up with and prefer physical media. I use my PC for researching and buying CDs and audio gear; I have no interest in bringing the computer experience into my listening environment. 

orpheus10: I've considered acquiring one of the Inous servers but even though, at 600 CDs, my music collection is a modest one, the prospect of having to burn them isn't appealing. I may reach a point where placing and removing a physical disc into/from an optical drive is beyond my physical capacities, but I hope that won't be for a very long time. Before that happens, my brain may very well lose the ability to operate a tablet or whatever other interface could be used to control a server-based system!  For my tastes, increased resolution can quickly become "too much of a good thing", but I recognize that for others, it's the holy grail.  
Each to his/her own. There's no shortage of gear out there !