Confused about gain: phono + pre, or just phono?

www.kabusa.com

Click on phono preamps at the top of the page and then scroll to the bottom of that page for the "phono preamp parameter calculator".

That gives you the ideal gain number for the phono preamp. Unless you are running a passive preamp, my advice to you would be to focus entirely on what you need at the phono stage, which is what the KAB calculator does.

FWIW, I have found it to be pretty much dead on and having either too much or too little gain can be problematic and result in less than optimal sound quality. As you see from the KAB site, optimal gain for .25 mV is around 62 db. 72 db would, IMO, be quite high and in many cases result in overload and compromised sound quality.

Not only will a .25 mV cartridge work with 62 db of gain, it has worked optimally in my experience with 2 different cartridges and two different phono stages, neither of which were KAB phono preamps, for me over the past 5-6 years.

My previous cartridge was an Ortofon MC 20 Super with an output of .25 mV and it worked perfectly with 62 db of gain into a 100 ohm load using a modified DB Systems phono preamp (modified to give 62 db of gain) into a line input on an Audiolab 8000A.

I've also used (and am currently using) Denon 103R's which are rated at .25 mV into that phono stage as well as an Aqvox phono stage into the Audiolab mentioned above as well as a Jungson JA 88C integrated.

Both of the 103R's I've used in the past 4 years have come with individual spec sheets indicating slightly higher output than normal specification. One with about .29 mV and the other had .30 mV.

My Aqvox has variable gain on the balanced inputs between 60 and 75 db and I've run both of the above Denon 103R's at the lowest gain setting. In other words 60 db. Going higher is as simple as turning the gain pots on the front of the unit and I've done it.

Those cartridges work best in my system with 60 db of gain, not any more.

Too much gain (and not enough gain, for that matter) is not a good thing.

I've had no noise with the DB Systems stage (which is a very inexpensive phono preamp) and the Aqvox but reviews of both have noted that these are extremely "quiet" phono stages. Both are pretty much "CD quiet" both while the music is playing and between tracks. As you point out, it is a matter of the quality of the design.

Of course, it is always a question of YMMV and I think there is a legitimate caveat with respect to pairing tube phono stages and low output cartridges; in general, that can be a combination that leads to a fair bit of noise once you get into and past the high 50's with gain.

I guess I've just been fortunate to own quality phono stages at different price points but, as I said, IME the KAB calculator is just about dead on. Could be I've just been lucky.