Classe CAM 350 monoblock vs Classe CAM-400 or Bryston 4B3


I am looking at two Classè audiogon postings. A Classe CAM 350 monoblock ($4,449) vs Classe CAM-400 monoblock ($4,900).


I don’t know Classè amps all that well but the earliest reviews I can find for the CAM 350 go back to 2001. The CA-400 may go back to 2009, when was the CAM-400 last made? I don’t know. Any differences in reliability or performance?

Should I assume both need to be recapped? Does one amp run hotter than the other? Is one Class A the other class AB?

Are there any Classè experts out there? I’d guess for the newer more powerful CAM-400 and extra $450 is not much of a difference everything else being equal.

As an audiogon virgin, having never bought or sold here I don’t know that “everything else is equal”.  I don't know how much to trust what I read.

All source material will be FLAC files. Speakers are Magnepan 3.7i about two years old. I know I love how Classè sounds but I worry about the heat making the room unlivable.  My taste in music is eclectic, almost anything except rap.

Perhaps the cool alternative would be a used Bryston 4B3 which Audiogon has 4 for sale at $4,100 - $4,500, any of which would have to be newer and less expensive than the Classè amps.  I have never listened to Bryston 4B3 on magnepan 3.7i speakers.  I don't know if I would like it?

A little guidance for the blind, but not deaf, yet, please; thank you.


timothywright

Showing 3 responses by psnyder149

timothy,

I own a full Classe pre/pro SSP Sigma with CA 5100 (which is from the series that the CAM 400 resides) a 5 channel 100 wpc amp that I use for all surround and the newer CA 2300 (the newer series from which the architecture is very similar to the current Delta Series) a 2 channel 300 wpc amp which I use for primary left and right and all music reproduction.

A number of points:

Firstly, Classe is back up and operating and is still supporting repairs on earlier equipment so I would not discourage you from buying.

The CAM 400 is a nice sounding system and it utilizes heat sinks along the sides for cooling.  If you search internet, you should be able to find pictures of 6 of these amps in numerous rooms at Abbey Roads studio where they are powering TOTL B&W speakers (pretty cool!).  CAM 400 was replaced with CAM 600 around 2011.  CAM 350 was replaced with CAM 400 around 2006.

The CAM 350 is getting a little "long in the tooth".  

If you are concerned with warming, I would strongly recommend you looking at either CA 2300 or CAM 600 monoblocks (although these may be overkill for the rest of your system).  BTW the CAM 600 is essentially a CA 2300 with both output channels wired together.  This series is much newer than the 400 and uses "ICTunnel" cooling with a variable speed fan on the back.  Other than switching to "on" from standbye, when the fan is momentarily turned on at 100%, I have never heard the fan during listening, either when using with home theater setup or just two channel.  I have the 5100 sitting on top of the 2300 and even when left on for 24 hours (which just happened earlier this week) the 2300 does not even get warm on the outside.  The 5100 does get slightly warm (as do CAM 400s).  This being said, it is much less warm than Class A operating amps or even my previous BAT VK 500 which warmed my large dedicated room at least 2-3 degrees.  In fact, my wife regularly teases me that the room is cold since I went to the all Classe system.

In terms of sound quality the Maggies will sound great with any of them. I would strongly recommend instead of the CAM 400, buy a CA 2300 and use the leftover money to buy a Classe pre/pro this would give you option of home theater but primary L/R channels are balanced.  There is a 2300 currently on ebay which should be available for $3-3.5K in Nashville, TN area (I actually know a little about this one's history as I own it's "brother"!).  There is an SSP Sigma mkII available on Audiogon which is owned by a friend of mine in CA and it has been absolutely babied it's whole life!   This is person that I bought my 5100 from.  I can tell you this marriage SSP and 2300 with excellent cabling will rival systems costing many times more.  You can see a complete description and picture of my current system under psnyder149 virtual systems.  Let me know if you need any additional info. and good luck!

@mike_in_nc 
You are correct that for 1-2 years, the Classe repairs were being handled by B&W and quality was definitely suspect but over the last year or so many of the original technicians from Montreal have been re-hired.  Last year at Axpona (April 2019), I had the opportunity to speak with Dave Nauber (General Manager of Classe) and he told me that this was exactly the plan that would be taking place over 2019 and it appears that the plan has been successfully executed.  All of the new equipment is now being manufactured in a SOTA factory in northern Japan.

Classe is now back up and operating as well as shipping new products.  I actually listened to a new Delta Pre with Delta Stereo in February that had been delivered in January.  These products are extensions from the CP-800 pre-amp (which was the design basis for the Sigma SSP I recommended) and the CA 2300/ CAM 600.  These new and improved versions are priced at nearly 2x their predecessors.  They sound fantastic but I have not had the opportunity to listen back to back with the predecessors so I can't say degree to which they are better.  The amps are biased much more towards class A operation (I think 35wpc before crossing into class A/B.  Even so, these units run very cool compared to other designs.  

Last month, I was on the phone with one of the technicians that I remember from earlier days as I was trying to purchase a new shipping box for a Classe Sigma Amp 5 that I am going to be selling.  Unfortunately, they were not able to supply me with one as this product has been discontinued but he did confirm that they will service it as well as the 3 other Classe products that I own.

The market seems to be taking notice of this situation as many used Classe prices have been drifting upwards.  There is an exception to this:  the Sigma Amp 2 and Amp 5 lines.  This is because Listen Up in Colorado bought up all of Classe's remaining inventory and has been selling these at less than 50% original list.  I own an Amp 5 and used it for nearly 5 years with my SSP.  This is a very good class D 5 channel amp with 2 channels fully balanced, but the sound quality of the CA and CAM versions is significantly better IMHO.  I say this at my own loss because I would love to sell the AMP5 and it will not be worth nearly as much as I would like. 

Regarding the fan noise, in my listening room, the fan noise from my plasma TV is actually louder than from the 2300.  This could be a function of layout, proximity to hard reflective surfaces vs. absorptive, etc.   So I can only say that in my room the 2300 is not audible over ambient levels except at startup as noted before.  I live near a highway in the Chicago suburbs so my ambient noise might be greater than yours therefore potentially covering up fan noise that might otherwise be audible.  
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