The dummy got a brain!
When I noticed the left channel, right channel disparity, it was over two years ago. First I corrected it by simply turning the left volume higher. Not satisfied with that, I went through a year of trouble shooting to find nothing wrong, but I still had the same problem.
After discussing it on this thread, it became apparent that it was room acoustics, and the solution must be to install sound absorbing panels on the right side of the room.
Just an hour ago, while I was trying to verify the cause of the problem, I removed the drapes from the patio door that make up the left side of the room; perfect balance. Why didn't I see that before? Although that's perfect balance, it's too hard, and I still have to install a panel on the right side of the room, because who wants to be exposed at night.
My point is, all I had to do in the beginning, was to remove the drapes in order to verify the problem and the solution.
Enjoy the music.
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Dave, when you say wife and drapes, the word "remove" had better not enter the conversation; "new" drapes are all that's allowed.
No matter now, since I found a relatively easy DIY that I'm going to install, and all will be well in this audiophile's land.
Enjoy the music.
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Now I'm gathering material for This DIY panel. There was a fabric store right around the corner, but it left during the last slowdown; how many slowdowns have we had? I should be able to get the rest of the stuff from "Home Depot". http://acousticsfreq.com/how-to-build-your-own-acoustic-panels/Pass anything along that comes to mind in regard to "room acustics". Have a happy Thanksgiving! |
Randy, I've done that many many times; Class "A" is quite often infinitely more expensive than Class "B". While you can mix and match components to come up with Class "B" sound; to come up with Class "A" sound, you must have all Class "A" components plus what we are doing as best we can; to have that done by experts. Class "A" is a "SOUND" as well as components that are given that rating.
While it's possible to occasionally find an affordable Class "A" component, (I always buy if I can use it) it's not the usual case.
You can get lucky on "amps" and "pre-amps" in regard to affordable class "A".
In regard to class "B"; it's my favorite class because some of the components are almost Class "A", and I can pay for them; the word "afford" is no longer in my vocabulary.
Class "A" cartridges and turntables are out of most people's reach.
I hope I've answered your question.
Enjoy the music.
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Randy, I own Audible Illusion and CJ PV-12. The AI is class A, while the PV-12 is class B. Both are tube, and both sound good; the short answer is size and quality of the "sound stage"; the AI is more definitive and has a larger sound stage. They are also on opposite ends of the sonic spectrum; one is neutral while the other has a certain "tube glow". Class A contains a very wide quality range, as well as price range; however, it's pointless to buy one expensive piece if you can not afford to buy all the expensive pieces in the chain, because a chain is no stronger than it's weakest link.
I've heard incredible top of the line ARC, especially in regard to definition, but it's too lean for my taste, almost like SS, and I prefer "Primaluna" which can come close to ARC with the right tubes. There are a number of different factors in regard to Class "A" sound, and now I'm speaking of the same components that have earned the Class "A" rating; that is why you have many decisions to make before you plunk down a large wad of cash; such as tube, or SS, and all the things you prefer in a pre-amp. I don't know how you go about making all those decisions, but they are necessary.
Enjoy the music.
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Dave, I appreciate your advice; I'm going to purchase enough material to make a batch of them, and experiment on wall placement. With something like this, I've discovered nothing beats experimentation, plus good observation and record keeping.
A successful mission of this nature requires attention to detail and "patience".
I'm sure anyone who's following what we're doing will enjoy their music ever so much more after completion of this project, I know I will.
Thanks for the heads up.
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Erik, it's good to hear that. These big name brands evolve over the years from their "signature sound", therefore an audition is absolutely necessary before you buy.
Some thoughts on "Stereophile's" classification system; they rest their foundation on that, while people might criticize, if they found something truly substantial wrong with the ratings, that would be a black eye for the magazine.
Sometime a component will rate "B" in one issue, and "C" in the next issue, and then return to "B". This means that component is "borderline B", and from my experience, is always a good buy; consequentially, I will quite often own that component. Good buys are rare in the high end.
The widest range of products exist in Class "A"; that is also where you can find the widest range of prices. "Koetsu" is the only really high priced high end cartridge I have ever auditioned, and it was magnificent. I don't recall which one, but I'm glad I remembered that because there are other cartridges in Class "A" that get recommended more, and I was considering one of them without ever having heard it.
That's an option we are faced with far too often; I'm going to take my own medicine and go with what I know; "Koetsu" if I'm ever in that position.
I will do my best to offer advice on components I know about that have been rated by "Stereophile". This is not a recommendation for the magazine, just a point of reference that we both can relate to.
No one understands better than me, about audiophiles with limited "pocketbooks", and I have no problem admitting it. Now to go along with that problem; "How are you going to audition the thing", is another problem. One option I can think of, is to buy a lesser priced model used, and sell it back for what you paid for it. You can usually rely on the current "signature sound"; that is the most important element in cartridges.
Enjoy the music.
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Dave, truer words were never spoken; each man has to find his own "Holy Grail" when it comes to cartridges; "Grado" is the poor man's "Koetsu"; that's part of my "Holy Grail".
Where we are now, is the common ground; while we might take different paths, we're all trying to reach the same destination, which is why I'm glad I wound up where we are, in regard to room treatment.
Enjoy the music.
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Helomech, I never thought of the rating system in that fashion, but that is a very good analogy. Class "C" will get you from here to there, but not in luxury, or exceedingly fast.
Class "B" is most desirable, and can get you from here to there, very fast, and in a degree of luxury that would be quite comfortable.
While Class "A" would put a grin on any Audiophile's face, most certainly, all Audiophile's would not be able to afford it.
Enjoy the music.
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Dave, I thank you for your recommendations, and the only reason I'm not looking into them, is because my plate is full right now.
I just got a new cartridge, and you know what a b---h they are to install, plus the present project. I have discovered the way to progress in these endeavors is to pursue one at a time.
Just looking at this cartridge, and thinking about how fragile it is, plus the cost, makes me wonder if I'm not in my right mind to be in a hobby that requires the skill of a surgeon; is this a hobby?
I'm also building a table just for the turntable, which I have all the material cut out, but not assembled. Now that I have my list for the hardware store that will complete parts and assembly for these projects, I can proceed.
Yesterday, the parking lots were so crowded, that I drove around two of them and came back home. All was not a waste, I enjoyed the ride; Nancy Wilson, and Anita O'Day made for such wonderful company that I took the long way home.
Enjoy the music.
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Dave, I sent my "Grado Reference Master 2" in for repair, and they sent me back a new cartridge in a new case. You might think that was a good thing, but in reality it was a wash. The reason I'm mentioning this is because Joe Grado died last year, and that always means unforeseen changes when the head man dies.
I suspect the reason they sent me back a new one is because they have decided to quit repairing them. This is not the first time I sent them a cartridge for repair, and I always got my old one back, complete with my old case; whatever scars that case had on it were mine.
If you have anything "Grado" that you like, you should make whatever transaction necessary "now", in regard to repair or a new one. Only old heads know intimately why these things do the things that the do; "Grado" had a spirit, and now that the spirit is dead, it will become just another company trying to make "money"; along with that desire to make money will come the increase in price, without the pride of the quality of the product.
These names like "Grado", were much more than a name, they signified the "inner soul" of a product; some got it, and some didn't.
When I see "Native Americans" worshiping sacred spirits, I think about the sacred spirits that reside in certain cartridges. Although I most certainly can not afford the sacred spirits that reside in certain Japanese Cartridges, I am aware of them, and if ever I can afford one, I will commune with the sacred spirit that resides within.
Enjoy the music.
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Randy, thanks to you and Dave, the ideas are constantly flowing. Since Dave is going to build some of those, I'll eagerly await the results.
Take your time Dave; we're going to have the best treated listening rooms on this forum.
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Dave and Randy, all is not logical; I've had tube base traps in the front corners since day 1 to stop bass "rattle" or resonance, and it worked. I just placed both tubes in the right hand corner, and the center image moved to the left, which is what I want.
That tells me this is going to require a lot of experimentation, which will require a number of pieces. I've only got 2 ft of wall to work with on the left side of the room, the rest is glass door and drapes.
Maybe a diffuser next to the tube trap on the left side will work; it's for sure we're making progress, but I can see it will seem quite "illogical" at times.
Ain't this a lot of fun.
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Mesch, you're going in the right direction; if you say you hear Class "B", I don't doubt it. That's a class that is attainable with dedication and hard work, plus numerous tweaks.
Room treatment is an area I haven't investigated, consequently, I'm still learning about it; that means we'll all progress together.
Enjoy the music.
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Dave, according to what you are saying, I should apply more absorption to the right side of the room, in order to move the image to the left? Is that correct?
I think I have a CD with test tone frequencies, but I don't have a RatShack analog sound pressure meter. I use Parts Express for odds and ends, might they have one? Make a list of the necessary meters for this job, and I can place an order.
Thanks for the help.
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Sometime before getting into the high end, I visited a friend who had a rig with an equalizer. I didn't even know what an equalizer was or did at that time; but I knew it sure looked impressive. This thing had 20 slider switches, and lights blinking for left and right channels; it looked so impressive that I wanted one for that reason alone. "Look at my new equalizer"!.
"What does it do"? Just look at it; with all those multicolored lights blinking, isn't that enough?
With an EQ you could shape the music however it suited you; this gave you the power of being the band leader.
My "Phase Linear 4000" had turnover tone controls, dynamic range expander, plus noise reduction; it was really hot stuff (junk under the hood) Now of course I have a pre without any tone controls because I want to hear the music on the record, not recreate it; which gets us to my present speakers.
Most people have had at least a half dozen or more pairs of speakers since I finally perfected the ones I got; that's why I want some "different" speakers. But after carefully listening to my "none" speakers, I thought about the equalizer, and the "turnover" tone controls; that brought me back to where I first got into the high end with no tone controls.
The purpose of this thing is to hear the "artist's music", not mine; and the speakers I have perform that function like no others I've heard.
What I need, is friends with equalizers, and turnover tone controls so I can come back to my rig, and say "Home sweet home".
Enjoy the music.
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I've got all the necessary materials for the panels, now it's time to go to work. Will give everyone a holler when I'm finished.
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If ever there was a store I missed, it was Radio Shack. I loved those stores, and I can thank them for so many completed projects. Any time I was in a mall, I had to drop in Radio Shack and browse.
After some experimenting with the absorption that I already have, I discovered I may not need too much diffusion. Since all the problems seem to be on one side of the room, they should be easy to correct.
Thanks for all the helpful information; it's going to take a few days before completion of projects. I'll post notes on progress.
Enjoy the music.
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Dave, you're absolutely correct; in order to achieve Class "A" results, this must be treated the same as any other audio science.
Parts Express has a complete system for $300. which includes a tripod with measuring mic, and other stuff for audio measurements. After I do the guesswork thing, I'll fine tune the room accurately with measurement microphone.
Right now I'm comparing prices on acoustic cloth; apparently black is going to be the color, it's the cheapest.
Moving right along.
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Dave, the stain and finish for the table is drying, and I'll start on the room treatment absorbers tomorrow. Just by experimenting with what I already have, I can see the image move from right to left.
This high ceiling with large beams running across, might eliminate the need for diffusers. I thought I could get cloth locally but that store is out of business, so I ordered some just a few minutes ago.
I can thank your suggestions for the success I'm expecting.
Enjoy the music.
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Jafant, Audible Illusions Pre, and PrimaLuna Mono blocks amp; I made my own interconnect from wire that is no longer available. Speaker cable is Siltech for midrange speaker, silver and copper for tweeter, and a large wire of fine stranded copper for the woofer; each driver has it's own crossover, that allows me to run separate wire to each driver.
I just stumbled across a piece of wire for the woofer; "Stinger pro series pure oxygen free copper 12AWG"; it sounds impressive, (the name).
When you add it all up, the PrimaLuna amp provides a little warmth, but it's primarily neutral, allowing the music to come through without coloration.
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YO guys! I'm installing a cartridge; I would rather get bit in the but by a snaggletooth gorilla than install a cartridge; try turning a curve into a straight line, it ain't easy.
After experimenting with the minute amount of room treatment I got, I can see the results are going to be fantastic when I get the rest of the stuff by mail.
My table for the turntable came out good, now I'm bitchin about the cartridge installation;if you're not already in stay out, big men don't have tiny elf fingers, which is what I need about now.
Enjoy the music.
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Dave, installing a cartridge is always an adventure; little tiny wires, and big fat clumsy fingers, handling something as fragile as a toothpick, and costing 1K; any slip can break that flimsier than a toothpick cantilever; that's when I'm sweating in the Winter time.
This is tech talk, if anyone wants to inquire about cartridge installation I will engage them, but I'm not a good salesman for analog because it's too expensive, plus there is only a little wiggle room for saving money, and cartridge is not a place you can find it.
As far as bang for the buck, I never expected room treatment would take a person so far. By applying absorption in different places around the room, I'm able to visualize partially what it will be like when I make it permanent.
Since this will be overall sound, that means a big boost on the audio rating scale. I'll try to compare this with the dollars and cents increase in components, to have an equal increase in total sound improvement.
It can take several upgrades in components, meaning number of components, to get a substantial increase in total sound improvement. This will be an interesting comparison; especially if we are considering "room treatment" as one component.
Enjoy the music.
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That was some very good advice Dave, and I will heed it; I might add to that, keep the tone arm locked down when not in use.
I used a Shure tracking force gauge, which might be accurate, but it's awfully clumsy, so I ordered a digital tracking force gauge. While I never had any problems in all these many years I've had that gauge, it seems my hands aren't as sure as they once were, and to be fumbling with something that's going to be so close to the cantilever is not a good idea.
In this hobby, everything must be evaluated, including age; my hands will have to be twice as study, if I'm to do that modification I talked about.
This new cartridge is absolutely fantastic, I don't see why you sold yours; maybe they made improvements since then, or I haven't reached the stage where you are. Or did the yen for a low output MC take over.
I got a long story to tell if you've got the time to listen:
I sold my "Audiolab" pre, and the guy called back and said there was nothing wrong with it, but he just didn't like it. So I said OK, send it back like you got it, and I'll return your money. That was the best thing that ever happened.
Now I use the MM phono on the Audiolab; it's absolutely perfect for me, and it's also perfect for a lot of other people who rave about it in the UK. It does absolutely "nothing"; no noise, inky black silence, and it doesn't change the sound of the Grado, one iota. Most people talk about what their phono stage does, and I rave about mine doing absolutely nothing, but amplify the signal like it's not even there.
Everything completes my philosophy of; "Nothing but the music."
I'll get back with you, probably before I complete the room treatment; I'm still waiting on the acoustic fabric, until then;
Enjoy the music.
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Hello Dave, I've got all the material including the cloth, but now I have a bad case of the winter lazies; my get up and go, done got up and went.
Believe it or not, I bought this 2 inch thick, 4X8 corning insulation leaning up against the wall in the listening room, and I've got a fantastic sound stage, it seems to affect a broad range of frequencies, but not so much the base; which is just what I want.
Thanks again for the ideas.
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