certin speaker makers harder to get dissounts fro


I have gotten a lot of good info here in the past few days, my new question is . The Martin logan dealers i have talked with said they never discount, but they are on sale( the vantage) for $60 off per speaker. Is this true for others who have bought ML speakers you could not get a price break even when spending a far amout of money. If it seems like i harp on money plese for give me im am but a Parmedic and it has taken me some time to put together 11000 dollars. Looking at some of the systems here that may be your cable budget. I dont wish you ill if if can afford this type of gear, I just wish I could also. Maybe one day, and it is fun to dream
cj1capp
wow NERD too bad I am done with my purchase from them, I almost would have lost sleep over it.
What about the notion of VALUE???? If one has a knowlegable dealer (as I've had--two actually), it can save a person time AND money by not having to first purchase, then empirically test a list of products in the quest of meeting one's own sonic criteria. Initial purchase price becomes less of an issue if long term satisfaction (and thus less component turnover) occurs. Also, the HASSLE FACTOR goes way down.

This is not to suggest that one should have blind faith, either. The above points apply ONLY if the dealer is:
1)totally honest, both with respect to pricing and with respect to sharing their blunt opinion (good or bad, and in detail) about products; 2)smart, experienced, knowlegable and familiar with your personal sonic tastes, and 3)is selling items which have a great price to performance ratio.
I've known a number of high-end dealers, none of which I would ever trust anywhere near 100%, to select the right component for me. But I've never met some of the hard working, knowlegeable and experienced, intelligent honest and helpful, high-end dealers/businessmen, who are sucessful in such markets as NYC and LA. If anyone here knows of such a dealer I would appreciate contact info. It would also help if he/she customarily gave significant discounts.
I've done repeat business with Kevin Deal; he comes closer than most. It's also very hard to ignore those 3-4 full page ads in every issue, each ad replete with numerous examples of Kevin's twisted sense of humor.
I sold audio in a retail setting from 1975 til 1988 and sporadically after that. In those days, hi-end stores were able to subsidize the cost of maintaining a high dollar inventory by selling large volumes of mid-fi stuff. We didn't have cables but most stores pushed some higher margin line of speakers as a loss leader and cheap phono cartridges had as much as 90 points in them. We used the term points to indicate what percentage of the total ticket was profit. A 40 point line cost the dealer 60% of list price. As a salesman, I was a sharecropper. I would work the floor typically maintaining a 31 to 35 per cent aggragate profit, of which I was paid 17 to 20 per cent. What this means is that I got between 5 and 7% of my total sales volume. This represented a significant piece of dealer overhead. Shipping, advertising, insurance, FICA, high rent, large floor space, yellow pages, utilities, etc. all added up. But the dealer could do it.........until the Best Buys and Circuit Cities took away the mainstream. As someone else stated, the higher end product did not offer the margins that were growing on the mid fi stuff. Also factor in that the mid fi customer was less savvy and more apt to pay list price and be otherwise duped. It left the high end store with the option of moving to HT or trying to hang on with infrequent high end sales. Today high end audio stores can only survive in areas of high population density and places like where I live are virtually unrepresented. That's a primary reason why I use Audiogon. We all know that the initial purchaser eats the depreciation and fortunately for me there are plenty of you willing to do that.
The higher the price of something, the fewer the potential customers. High end audio very nearly priced itself out of existence. Today there is a new and promising movement in high end. Factory direct marketing is showing signs of success. Srajan of 6moons.com seems to deliberately ferret out products like this for review. Typically there is an in-home trial period where you get to make up your mind slowly utilizing your own system and room over a predetermined period of time. What could be better? If you decide against the purchase, you will be out round trip freight but that can be considered rent on a brand new product which you return with no depreciation or insurance against buying something that you will later have to lose money on at resale. There aren't any villians in the picture. All parties are just trying to make their way. Remember that these are luxuries and, despite the half serious melodrama often expressed, not necessities like the exploitively priced fuels we all consume daily. If you want to be pissed off about pricing, I suggest that you direct your attention toward energy and medical extortion. Those are essentials. Audio consumption remains voluntary.
There are, I think certain rules to follow in dealing with dealers.
1) No requests for dems if you have no intention of buying from the shop. A dealer friend says that there is a special place in hell for guys spending hours deming an item, then driving 50miles to a discount store to save 5 bucks.
2) A dem does'nt mean you will buy, you may want to look elsewhere too, but you should have the intention of buying at a retail price, at some point.
3) If you make a decision, bargaining over a discount is fair, if your expectation is fair. If you have taken 30 minutes of his time, it may be more than a 3 hour trawl through different gear. He has to make a living, but your cash did'nt grow on trees, its what is known as a free market.
4) Be open about what you are after, he can't advise if he does'nt know. Many dealers I know are frustrated by guys bringing in a HiFi mag demanding product X, not interested or suspicious of advise. assume these guys know a bit about HiFi and have your interests at heart. A happy customer will come back. If in doubt about this or you feel pressured to a product or price that is not for you, walk away.
Following these rules is a problem for me. most of my gear is 2nd user, so I don't feel I can seek dealer dems, I feel you must follow the rule to be fair. Unless you have a relationship with a dealer and are upfront about the reason for the dem, he may accomodate you to build up a relationship with you.
This seems common sense to me