I am Bob Grost from Cerious. Just wanted to clear some things up! Graphene is used in our cables as part of a complex composite conductor. Whenever you have multiple strands in a conductor electrons will stay "attached" to a single strand until you get a transient which has significant energy and the electron will then "jump" from strand to strand. This is how semiconductors works. There are 2 problems here. The first is that this characteristic causes time smear which gives the cable differing properties with amplitude. In simple terms the cable behaves one way with quiet music and another with loud music. The second problem is that music is ALL transients. In real world cases virtually all "standard" cables (even those that are $10,000 a set...) behave one way for the melody line and another for ambient fields that are 25 db quieter than the main instrument. This leads to "Audiophile sound" where the ambient wave is clearly heard as a separate signal. For years this was thought to be a positive aspect of high level systems because it showed their "resolving" power.
In live music, however, the ambient element is PART OF the main field. It is EXPERIENCED, not HEARD. The Audiophile experience was limited to hearing that the stand up Bass in the trio can be clearly heard that it SHOULD be 15 feet back in the image - because you can hear the ambient wave clearly - even though it is only experienced 5 feet behind the plane of the speakers as a musical experience. Not only is this not realistic, but causes stress as your brain is telling you two different realities about the same sonic event in real time. Graphene Extreme cables allow you to experience the stand up Bass as a consistent sonic event that is 15 feet behind the plane of the speakers as the main signal and its ambient field have identical sonic properties.
How is the Graphene used? Graphene particles are flooded into each conductor and then the Teflon jacket is heated to shrink the jackets forcing the particles into every minute gap and seam. Where there was a gap of air before between strands in the conductor there is now Graphene! The cable no longer behaves as a semiconductor because there is no air gap any longer. The conductor behaves like a single strand conductor, only it is linear to 4 Gigahertz...We produce the Graphene ourselves in house to control costs. Hope this helped!
BG |
Bob from Cerious again! Are we in business? I hope so considering I am working 16 hour days. We got 127 emails today. rgrost@cerioustechnologies.com and 623-703-9771. Running behind in returning calls will get to that Saturday! Be patient my son... |
Bob from Cerious. Both of these cords are current limited by the connectors, not the cable itself. We have run the cable itself at 50 amps for extended periods. The main difference is how the ground and Neutral are configured. In AC the Neutral stays at the same potential at all times as it is tied to a stake in the ground at the electrical box (that is why they call it "Ground"). The "Hot" swings all over from plus to minus sixty times a second. That is why we have slow conductors on the Neutral and extremely fast conductors on the Hot. I believe we are the only company using two distinctly different conductors in our power cables.The main difference between the Conditioner Optimized and the High Current is that the Conditioner Optimized cable has a Neutral conductor that is VERY high loss because conditioner units return a lot of garbage to the ground planes and can actually pollute the grounds throughout the rest of the system. This cable protects the electrical grid in your home and enables the conditioner to work more effectively. Yes the PS Audio units are still a mystery to me as they have no standard configuration to optimize to. I think today I feel like a Sawtooth tiger wave with a dash of Donald, Bernie and a hint of self loathing. I am convinced there is a setting on the PS Audio that would be the soul mate for our cables, but eHarmony refuses to accept cables that swing both ways so please try them and experiment! We are always willing to work with you to help you have the best system you can have and hopefully have some fun while doing it |
Bob from Cerious here...I only have a few minutes before my wife chains me back to my workbench to make cables but I wanted to further explain our use of Graphene. While we call things "wires" most of the time it is a number of individual wires wound into a bundles. When a signal travels through each strand it tends to stay in the individual strand it started in until a high amplitude transient hits and then electrons "jump" from strand to strand. Bundles of wires, therefore, behave as semiconductors - and even worse - semiconductors that change behavior with changing amplitude. In simple terms this wire bundle changes sonic characteristics with volume. Keeping in mind music is all transients - not a good thing.
We fill in the voids between strands with Graphene so there is an easy path for electrons to travel from strand to strand virtually eliminating the semiconductor characteristic and yes our ceramic is a conductor. I know because I invented it...
Lastly no one has used anything like Graphene as a conductor before. Graphite is made by baking specific fabrics at high temps to char the structure of each strand of fabric "Nano" carbon or Graphite as used in the past was simply produced by starting with finer threads before baking. Not exactly high tech and certainly not Graphene.
Thanks everyone and I so appreciate the support. I am working as long and as fast as I can but ultimately it only reaches your hands when it is perfect with no corners cut. "yes, Honey...time to make the cables...time to make the cables...time to make the cables..." |
Very good...that is the reference where it came from... |
Bob from Cerious again. Yes we are small...a family operation. I am an "odd duck" in the audio world. First I give priority to repeat customers. While I was buried in orders two customers of mine really wanted their GE speaker cables re-terminated. I actually put off new sales to re-terminate their cable for free. We used to have a term for this - customer service! Second I do not like taking money for product I cannot ship right away. How many times have audiophiles put down money and then had to wait (six months...a year?) to get their product? Not fair to the customer. Period.
We have gone from getting an order and sitting down and making the order from the ground up to running 20 sets of GE speaker cables at a time, 50 power cords at a time, all with the stress that each one has to be perfect so the customer gets a great product. If you do not get an immediate response we are working on it (our website got 200,000 hits last month!). Thank you all for the support and the patience.
Lastly a note on the power cords. Everything about our power cords is unique. One of the most unique aspects is that they have REACTIVE jackets that actually react to vibrations and physically move to damp out vibrations caused by running current through a conductor (this is the main difference between the high and low current models as the jacket is designed with much finer reactive ceramics on the low current model versus the high current....). While I realize it is great fun to swap cords to A/B, this reactive process "resets" every time the cord is moved. While the GE cords will sound great immediately, just leaving them alone in your system will reap benefits everyday for 2 weeks as the ceramics hunt down and eliminate the internal vibrations around the conductors. This leads to those late night "Hey, wait a minute...I never heard that before!" moments we all treasure so much. So give vibrational peace a chance and let your cables settle. You will be rewarded. |
Bob from Cerious again. Thanks again to everybody! The prices posted are the real deal (intro price on GE speaker cables $649 8 foot set...) and if you are a customer who has purchased from me before you are "locked in" to those prices. So 9 months from now you want another power cord...you get the intro price. You took a chance on a small US company that hand makes products so you deserve loyalty and you will receive it.
Last a note on communication. While I have been very busy the whole Audiogon system is very hard to navigate as everything that comes through has login IDs and not names so not only do I have to keep orders straight but I have to figure out that Jim is "Beastmaster1000". Also Audiogon blocks anything from a seller that has numbers - like tracking numbers for shipments - Blocked! Phone numbers, internet links, email addresses. If an Audiogon communication has any of these the whole message does not get delivered so you - the customer - thinks I never responded. I will continue to check out the blog and contact anyone who says they have had a problem contacting me - and yes - I have been too busy to update the website (besides that is my daughter's job who does website design for a living and will "someday" get to updating Dad's site...Kids!). |
This is Bob From Cerious. I have NEVER been anything but polite and respectful to ANYONE who I engage with.Period. Do we really have to go here? I am not stressed. I am wonderful and doing what I love with only a desire to share it. Why would you believe that I would act in a way that would lead me to be described in this manner? Never, Ever... |
Bob from Cerious (AGAIN!). First thanks for all the hard work. Comparing cords is not for the timid. It gets even stranger when cords have devices (such as magnets) that take time to settle. This complicates things dramatically. At Cerious we have a background in Reactive ballistic armor which reacts to bullet strikes to "cancel" them out. Each GE power cord has a reactive jacket.If you REALLY want to have fun (I cannot believe I just said that...) I would love some customers that have GE power cords in their systems that are settled in (not been moved for a week) to listen to their system, pull them out (bend them around and even shake them to reset them) and stick them back in their system and listen again. I think you may be shocked at what you hear.
It was an honor to be included in a listen off with such fine products as those included and I hope we have made your life more fun and interesting...and musically engaging. Oh...and don't let your wife see you taking the power cords out and shaking them...you do not want to have to explain that one...Peace... |
Excuse me while I "gauge" your response... |
The Exact explanation is key to the use of Graphene. We are used to the "Titanium" card but all know it is not made of Titanium. The "Graphene X" technology used in the tennis racket is just a label for their core material, which has no correlation to the material called Graphene. Graphene has no structural elements which is why you cannot make a solid conductor out of it. Composite structures are weakest at their boundaries and seams, and any material one atom small is ALL seams. Tennis rackets are made of a skeleton of Syntactic foam skinned in various materials, usually fiberglass with a small amount of carbon fiber. While Graphene could fill in the voids in the foam it would be MUCH heavier than the air it disposes and would give you tennis elbow from the loss of damping. Heads last line was the "Liquid Metal" series which employed no actual Liquid Metal or Amorphous materials. It was a marketing slogan. This is why at Cerious I go out of my way to explain EXACTLY how we use it and why. If a company is vague - it is for a reason... |
Sorry to steer this away from audio. I "Know" about this area because I have worked as a consultant to both the golf (shafts) and tennis industries designing materials for them. Adding Graphene to the Epoxy mix versus ceramic micro-spheres will add little to the characteristics of rackets or golf shafts (BTW I was a regional champion tennis player and am still a solid 4.5 player nearing 60). This is marketing pure and simple. Since we came out with products that contain Graphene, I wish you could see all the Institutes, Trade Associations, and University Grant proposals we get looking for money. Graphene will be a $20 Billion dollar "industry" this year. Again I am sorry to have added to the steering of subject away from audio (which I LOVE) to technical aspects of materials which is work for me and just plain tedious! If you wish more information on materials write me at my website and I will be glad to elaborate without taking up space on the audio forum... |
Bob From Cerious...since so many read this forum I figure this will be fastest. I got my shipment of AC connectors today from Japan and 1/2 were supposed to be Gold plated (for the Red power cords) and 1/2 Rhodium for the Blue and Yellow. Got all Gold. They screwed up! Am awaiting word on how fast they can get me the right connectors. Eddy your AC cords are done so you will be taken care of right away! I will keep you posted and don't start your own business (unless it is names Apple...). Thanks everybody and do appreciate the patience.
Bob |
Bob from Cerious...I first want to say that music is a personal experience and that everyone has to find what makes them happy - so in no way throwing stones here. Having taught Recording Science and Acoustic Theory at the University level what you are hearing from our cables is an accurate description - everything will be behind the speakers. Human beings have the ability to judge distance based on sound. I am afraid to say that the only way something can sound closer than it really is - like music coming "out into the room" - is if there is a distortion in the time domain that interferes with this mechanism. You can "open up" the soundstage by spreading out the speakers and towing them to point out more into the room which will add the sense of space. Our cables are capable of a very 3D presentation but it starts in a plane even with the speakers and extends back behind them. If you think of an orchestral recording, most mic placements are directly behind the conductor and elevated. The microphones are the window into this performance and your speakers are reproducing what the microphones "hear". Does the conductor ever hear the orchestra moved out into the house so he is immersed into the middle of the orchestra? No. He hears a group of musicians that start about ten feet away and go away from him in a coherent soundstage. This extends to individual instruments, too. If you picture a saxophone player standing in front of a mic and playing speakers will be the reference point of the mic and the player will be the same distance behind the speakers that they are standing away from the mic if everything is "accurate".
Now we get down to the REAL deal. We have to be happy and enjoy our systems. Everyone desires to experience things differently. If this were not true there would only be one set of speakers in the marketplace. Live with the cables a while and play with your setup and see if you grow to like the different perspective. You may find it grows on you. You also may want your old sound back. In that case send the cables back for a full refund! I want you to enjoy your music - that is why we are all here (right?...am I right?..anybody?). Thanks everybody and I hope this post was not controversial. Enjoy... |
Sorry...after researching this DAC I would go Blue as its regulators draw a fair amount of current... |
Bob From Cerious...Best would be BLUE High Current for the integrated and Red (Low Current) for the DAC... |
Sorry guys...My daughter got married on Saturday and my forwarding did not materialize. I am back in the office and will get to everyone tomorrow morning! I will leave ti up to everyone to decide if attending one's daughter's wedding is unbecoming. Working on the website and my apologies again.
Bob from Cerious...Hugs! |
Thanks lancelock for the support. When I ran Unity Audio we had 120 dealers in 16 countries and all I did was run a company 16 hours a day with almost 5 years without a day off.I never had time to develop new product or have a life. Cerious was profitable in its second day of operations. Life is about relationships and I am attempting to forge a business model that fosters knowing my customers (and supporting them) long term. Anyone who understands manufacturing and profitability knows that the highest level of return on investment occurs at maximum production capacity. You WANT production strained. Any underutilized capacity costs you money.
As far as communication, anyone tried to get help from Amazon or PayPal lately? Talk to the computer! My first priority goes to those that have paid for product - getting them a hand made product at an incredible price. Could I miss some opportunities for sales? Absolutely. But we must always realize where these opportunities came from - incredible cables at an incredible price. This is the fundamental mission and "sales strategy" of Cerious. I am EXACTLY where I want to be. Life is wonderful (Group hug!...sorry got a little carried away there...).
Bob |
You realize that if we agree that "full Loom" only makes limited sense then we will have to come up with another name. My vote is for the "full Monty"...I guess that would be the stripped down version...
Bob |
Hi guys,,,Bob From Cerious. We are now on our 3rd set of graphics on the speaker cables because many customers were getting confused. This is why we were getting different answers how to hook them up because I have tweaked the labels trying to make it as easy as possible. The latest has every connector specifically labeled as "Right +" or "Right -" or "Left +" or "Left -". I kind of thought we would have no more questions after this but if any confusion occurs feel free to call me directly. Kclone called me on a Sunday night and I was happy to get him relaxed and hooked up properly. He admitted after he understood that he was making it harder than it was. Just follow the label on each connector and you will be "GOLDEN!!!". BTW no sonic or internal changes on the speaker cables, just tweaks to the connector labels to try to make it clearer how to hook them up...Thanks. |
I do try but the best way is to go to our website and hit the contact button which will take you directly into my email...
Bob |
Hi guys...Bob from Cerious. So I surprised my wife this last weekend and flew her to the beach for her birthday (out Friday night and back Monday morning). I did not worry about mail forwarding as I would just be gone for the weekend. We flew Delta...Monday morning their system crashed and they cancelled all flights. Now two days at the airport and they think they can get us home on Friday! My wife wishes to thank Dekta as she will now get a week on the beach but I want to let everyone know that I can get my gmail so if you need to contact me rgrost@gmail.com or call me at 623-703-9771. Thanks... |
Hi everyone, Bob from Cerious. I wanted to clarify that ALL Graphene Extreme interconnects are shielded. We use carbon fiber as a shield as it has greater coverage and most importantly sounds better...Thanks. |
Bob from Cerious. We currently do not offer a USB. The main problem is that the format is highly flawed. Just making an Audiophile cable will never get you to Heaven. Each USB has a plus and minus digital signal and then a power source of Ground and +5 volts. The +5 volts coming out of your computer is "POO" and the ground often has enough noise to screw up any USB DAC on the planet. Therefore our USB has to bypass the +5V coming from the computer and have its own highly regulated voltage source - and ground - independent of the computer or source component. We are working on it and are sourcing cases for the power supply (in my spare time...). Keep the faith it will come and it will be "Killer...". |
8 foot sets of GE speaker cables are $649 and 1M IC are $340 pair... |
Quick correction...we offered the $299 price for Black Friday but that was VERY short lived. We simply could not do that. We are now at $349 for 5 foot power cords and 1M pairs of IC... |
lak...from your mouth to God's ears...I will do what it takes to get proper prices listed on the website...
Cerious Bob |
Each conductor is 1/2" in diameter and has equivalent to 2/0 AWG conductor volume...
Bob |
Bob from Cerious...We have an OEM version of an Oyaide plug made for us in Japan. It is the only way we can afford to sell them for what we do. Using a "true" Oyaide plug would more than double what we can sell them to customers for and we have worked closely with our supplier to get them to be a sonic wash for much less money. Oyaide makes a great connector but it is one we cannot afford to use to keep anything close to our price point... |
Bob from Cerious. I wish your feedback. Any interest in a GE dedicated Phono cable (with 5 pin din connector...)? |
Bob from Cerious. Everyday you live and do not improve is a lost opportunity. There are just two problems with coming out with something new. [1] Graphene Extremes are really good, so it would have to be a clear performance upgrade of a cable beating $4000 cables. [2] Time...all I do is make cables. I have no time to do R&D. It will happen someday but do not fear the future. I always take current customers into consideration with very generous trade in policies and many customers took advantage of this to go from Nano to GE. Enjoy...now back to "Making the cables..." |
Bob from Cerious...I am out of the office and will return on Monday. Do not freak out...I still love you and will respond to everyone then. Mark...your order will ship Monday. Where I am is spotty in communication so keep the faith and will get to eveyone then. Thanks! |
Happy Thanksgiving to all and enjoy all that we have. Blessings...
Bob from Cerious |
No problem with a Blue HC cord on a 2 watt SET amp. They are very inefficient and the heaters suck serious juice. I ran a high bias Class A SS amp that was only 10 watts and it drew 800 watts from the wall at idle... |
Hi everyone...Bob from Cerious. First Merry Christmas to all and Happy Holidays! I need some advice. I want to purchase a device so I can break in cables and send them to you so they are on their way to breaking in fully rather than just "brand new" and cold. Recommendations? Thanks!
Bob |
Holy crap...$2,000+ for the high power with ground adapters. I need to start putting magnets in my cables so I can charge more! He is in Phoenix, too. Will try to swing a deal. I love you guys, but $2,000 (Playoffs...Playoffs...did you say Playoffs?)!?
Would you consider it a plus to have a manufacturer pre cook their cables for you? Yah...Yah...I know you would...Crap...Being a perfectionist has its drawbacks...I am not buying a cryogenic freezer though...just sayin...
Bob |
You will hear continued evolution as break in goes past 100 hours and will be fully broken in by 200 hours. The mid bass will relax and the lowest bass will become more solid. This is why I want to pre-break them in to get you full sound sooner...
Bob |
I think it worked great for Walt Disney. No idea...
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Thanks Guys...No cable cooker then. Now I have no excuse to raise prices! I guess I can keep them right where they are now...Happy Days! |
Sorry to be so cryptic. As someone who works so hard to give SOTA performance at a fair price the practice of something like cryogenics being added to the production process is daunting. Being an audiophile myself and servicing audiophiles forever I realize we, as a group, are seemingly never satisfied. If I were to say "Oh yah,,,cryo would make a HUGE difference" then my email would blow up asking when I am coming out with the cryo version and if the GE can be sent in to be updated. Absolutely no insult meant!
In a direct answer, most metals have a memory and an ideal crystal structure. This structure gets distorted through the extruding of the metal to make the wires and most significantly through the heating of the solder process, which is why I always design to have as few solder joints in the signal path as possible. Running a signal through the wire and joint slowly restores it back to its original structure although slowly. Cryo causes the crystal structure to "relax" and spring back quicker. While I do use metals in the GE, the carbon fiber and Graphene would be unaffected by the cryogenic process - other than to make the Graphene a virtually perfect conductor when frozen. So how many of your wives would put up with you having a tank of liquid Nitrogen in your living room? Yah...Exactly. You though the liquid Nitrogen was cold...
Bob |
Yes everything is system dependent. This is why we offer a 30 day money back trial so you can experience them yourself in the comfort of your home with your equipment. With this acknowledgment, what does this say about audio reviews of equipment and especially cables in major magazines? Funny how the reviewers never address this little "problem". Trust your own ears and remember that it is you who you are trying to make happy. We now stand at 3 sets of GE speaker cables returned...out of over 250 sets sold. I will take that... |
We went through 6 different sets of bananas but we finally have bananas that I am proud of the sound and so far have been bullet proof, They are Silver plated copper and should last a long time. I insist on everything I make lasting a LONG time...Still prefer spades but many find bananas appealing... |
The Graphene is Pressure injected into the wire bundle and the fill was listened to to get the best sonic result. This was a Ground connector, the Positive is totally of a different configuration...Any problems with the sound or price? BTW I got married last night so will taking a couple of days off...
Bob |
I am an open book. Did not have anything to do with any entries being removed. Any questions just ask. I do have somethings that are secrets as to why my cables sound so good but otherwise will answer anything. I will say the only way to get to the internal "fat" part of the cables is to totally destroy the cable to figure out how they are made. Replacing a connector will not even get you close. Very odd all the way around. If you are going to destroy a cable pick a positive lead - they are much more interesting - and require an electron microscope... |
The GE are only available factory direct from Cerious...we ship worldwide!
Bob |
I am terrible at leaving feedback - my apologies. Every minute I spend not making cables to get them shipped in a timely manner I feel guilty about so I neglect "normal" things like feedback. Will try to do better. Believe me you are appreciated! |
So...first off why would you not contact me when it is apparent I take good care of customers to have me address any problems you may have had? Second, why would we believe that any problem you may have had was a problem with the original product when you have sliced them in half and torn them apart? There was carbon sticking out? I thought you said they were a fraud because they were just a standard wire? There is no carbon but then there is carbon? Yet another strange post apparently published posthumously since you were electrocuted... |
I almost feel bad now...Please do not start watching the Kardashians.
Bob |
Cables are not one single strand of conductor. They are virtually always multiple strands of finer wire or other materials twisted together like a rope. When a musical signal is sent through this bundle electrons tend to stay within each individual strand - until - a transient (a louder pulse of music) hits and that is when all heck breaks loose. This added energy causes electrons to "jump" from strand to strand destroying the time constant of the bundle as a whole. If we keep in mind that music is virtually all transients we can see that a signal sent down our bundle will have random electrons arriving on the other end at different times depending on their travels ACROSS the bundle. This just kills imaging and the relationship of initial note and decay which is what makes music sound REAL. At Cerious we use Graphene under high pressure to "fill in" the gaps between individual strands creating a single conductor. Since the Graphene is even lower resistance than the strands themselves the signal tends to flow through the Graphene itself which is surrounded by wire strands of higher resistance. The wire acts almost as a barrier channeling the signal and keeping it within the Graphene strings since the signal wants to travel in the path of least resistance. Here I must add that this is the theory at least which has been borne out by listening tests. Every cable I have designed was approached through this theory and the closest I have been able to produce a real world cable to this design has sounded better than the previous iteration. I am a researcher at my core and work everyday to correlate design to real world performance so I can understand why cables sound the way they do. Graphene has added an incredible tool to the tool chest and we at Cerious will continue to unlock the potential of this breakthrough material.
Bob Grost |
I agree with LAK assessment on the 1,2,3 improvements...
Bob Grost |
