Cerious Technologies NEW Graphene Cables

Jetter 2-11-2017
But if I remember correctly Al has mentioned that the music signal, whatever it is made up of, like electricity in general, travels the path of least resistance.

Hi George,

Thanks for thinking of me, but no, I never would have said that, in this thread (which I have not participated in until now), or in any other thread. The old saying that electricity follows the path of least resistance is a somewhat misleading oversimplification. Electric current flowing between two points will utilize all of the paths that exist between those points, and will divide up between those paths in inverse proportion to their resistance. (And that’s even a bit of an oversimplification, because at frequencies other than zero Hz, i.e., other than at DC, inductance, capacitance, and impedance enter the picture, in addition to resistance). So a greater fraction of the current will utilize a lower resistance path than the fraction of the current that will utilize a higher resistance path between the same points, but all available paths between those points will be utilized to some degree.

Also, as Geoff indicated information in an electrical signal is conveyed in the form of an electromagnetic wave, which propagates along a cable at a substantial fraction of the speed of light in a vacuum. Generally somewhere between 50% and 98% of the speed of light in a vacuum (which is about 186,000 miles per second), depending primarily on what is called the "dielectric constant" of the insulation that surrounds the conductors in the particular cable.

So for example the time required for a musical signal to propagate from one end to the other of a 10 foot cable having a propagation velocity of 75% of the speed of light in a vacuum would be approximately 0.000000014 seconds. In other words, essentially instantaneously. (Consider the fact that just one cycle of what is considered to nominally be the highest audible frequency, 20 kHz, is several thousand times longer than that, with mid-range and bass frequencies having cycle times that are far longer still). Any differences in that 0.000000014 second figure due to whatever effects strand jumping may have on the electromagnetic wave therefore figure to be completely insignificant.

That said, based on the experiences that have been reported in this thread I don’t doubt or question that Bob’s cables are outstanding performers, whatever the reason may be.

Regards,
-- Al

LAK 2-14-2017

I think it’s [prioritization of power cord upgrades among different kinds of components] a matter of system synergy and probably other technical aspects of equipment that I’m not capible of explaining but I’m hoping other more knowledgable will jump in here and explain it for us?

From a technical standpoint what I would find surprising would be if there **were** a high degree of consistency among reports of where in a system power cord upgrades are found to be most efficacious. There are simply too many dependencies and interactions that are involved, relating to the designs of the specific components, how they are interconnected, the technical characteristics of the particular power cords, and the voltage and noise characteristics of the incoming AC. Many of these dependencies and interactions, such as those involving electrical noise, have little if any predictability.

To cite just a few examples:

1) Bandwidth differences among power cords will affect different components differently. Wider bandwidth may improve the performance of many power amplifiers and integrated amplifiers, due to increased responsiveness of the cord to abrupt changes in demand for current (Shunyata has published some interesting papers and measured data on this), but may increase the bandwidth and overall amplitude of electrical noise that may enter or leave the component via the cord. Responsiveness to abrupt changes in demand for current will be significant mainly in the case of power amplifiers and integrated amplifiers, to a degree that will vary depending on their bias class (A, AB, or D) and on how much internal energy storage is provided in their design, among other design-dependent variables, while having little if any significance in the case of line-level components. On the other hand, power amplifiers and integrated amplifiers can feed significant amounts of electrical noise back into their power cords (as can DACs, CDPs, and other digital components), and bandwidth limitations in a power cord presumably may be helpful in limiting how much of that noise may couple into other components in the system. So there are design-dependent tradeoffs that come into play.

2) The significance of differences in shielding effectiveness among different power cords will depend on the amplitude and frequency spectrum of RFI that may be fed back from a particular component into its power cord, on the paths that may be available for that RFI to couple into other parts of the system, on the RFI sensitivity of other parts of the system, and on RFI that may be picked up from other parts of the system. All of this has essentially no predictability.

3) Voltage loss due to resistance in the cord will vary depending on how much current is drawn by the component, and a given amount of voltage loss will certainly have differing effects depending on the function and the design of the specific component. And of course differences in the AC line voltage at different locations will further lessen the predictability of all of this. In past threads, btw, Ralph (Atmasphere) has described having measured remarkably large reductions in the power capability of certain amplifiers resulting from relatively small voltage drops across some power cords. While line-level components having well regulated internal power supplies, and that draw minimal amounts of current, will likely have no sensitivity to this.

And of course all of this is in addition to the variables of listener preference, the intrinsic sonic characteristics of the components in the system, room acoustics, preferred listening volumes (which can affect the frequency response characteristics of our hearing mechanisms), the kinds of recordings that are listened to, etc.

Regards,

-- Al

First, I wish to extend my sincere sympathies to Bob and his family for their loss.

Second, I wish to repeat the concluding comment of my first post in this thread, dated 2/11/2017: “… based on the experiences that have been reported in this thread I don’t doubt or question that Bob’s cables are outstanding performers, whatever the reason may be.”

Third, regarding the statements about technical matters that Geoff has made in his recent posts in this thread, what he has said is correct. And perhaps it will minimize the back and forth arguments that may ensue on Monday if I elaborate further.

It should first perhaps be added to what Geoff has said that the **extremely** slow “drift velocity” of electrons that occurs in a cable in response to application of an electrical signal, and that occurs **in conjunction with** the near light speed velocity at which the signal propagates, is superimposed upon random electron movement that occurs at what is known as “Fermi velocity.” That random movement of electrons occurs in a conductor regardless of whether or not a signal is present, and is vastly faster than drift velocity, but vastly slower than the speed of signal propagation. See this reference:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/ohmmic.html

So what does the electrical signal, that propagates at near light speed, consist of? As Geoff stated it is an electromagnetic wave. And like electromagnetic waves that propagate in free space, such as light and radio waves, it consists of photons. See the following Wikipedia writeup for a description of what a photon is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon

Simply put, a photon is the smallest elemental unit of electromagnetic energy. It has the properties of both a particle and a wave. For example, light exhibits wave properties under conditions of refraction or interference. Particle properties are exhibited under conditions of emission or absorption of light. And although photons are most commonly thought of in the context of light, they are what comprise any kind of electromagnetic wave, including visible and invisible light, radio signals, X-rays, gamma rays, microwave radiation, and any kind of electrical signal, whether transmitted through the air or through a cable. Including audio signals.

In the case of an electrical signal transmitted through a cable, however, the electromagnetic wave does not travel within the conductor. What travels within the conductor are electrons, moving **very** slowly. The electromagnetic wave travels at near light speed just outside the conductor, through the insulating material. Which is why, as I said in my post dated 2/11/2017, the near light speed velocity of the signal depends on what is known as the “dielectric constant” of the particular insulation.

Finally, how does one reconcile the very slow drift velocity of electrons within a cable with the associated near light speed propagation of the signal? The way to think of it is that the application of a given voltage at one end of a cable will cause a very slow drift of electrons into or out of that end of the cable, depending on the +/- polarity of the voltage at any particular instant. A corresponding slow drift of **different** electrons will occur at the other end of the cable, as well as at all points in between. The movement of the electrons at the end of the cable that is opposite the end at which the signal is applied will be delayed from the corresponding movement of the different electrons at the end to which the signal is applied by the amount of time it takes for the signal to propagate the length of the cable, travelling at near light speed.

That is my understanding of these matters, at least. Regards,

-- Al

Thanks for the nice words, gentlemen.

Charles, yes, I assumed that "Alet" was either an auto-correct thing or a typo.  Although that happens to be the name of a river in France.  For the record, in my case Al is short for Alfred.

Regarding your comment that followed my previous post, as previously indicated the choice of insulation material will affect the propagation velocity of the cable.  In itself propagation velocity figures to be insignificant in the case of analog signal transmission, since the propagation velocity of pretty much any cable will exceed 50% of the speed of light, and hence the resulting delay will be completely insignificant.  It may very well be significant, though, in many cases involving digital signal transmission, although in ways that are component dependent and don't have a great deal of predictability.  The propagation velocity of a digital cable factors into the rationale underlying the 1.5 meter length recommendation you've probably seen cited as usually having the greatest likelihood of being optimal in S/PDIF applications.  That likelihood, though, will also be highly dependent on certain characteristics of the signal provided by the component which drives the cable, especially what are referred to as signal risetimes and falltimes, which in turn are usually unspecified.  

FWIW, my intuitive guess is that in the case of analog signal transmission the most significant consequence of the choice of insulation material is likely to relate to the effects on the signal of dielectric absorption.

Regarding your comments about overall cable design and construction, yes, that will of course affect resistance, inductance, capacitance, "characteristic impedance," skin effect, and just about any other cable parameter one might name.  Each of which will have varying significances depending on the specific application.

One further point which may be of interest regarding the various forms of electromagnetic waves that I mentioned, namely visible and invisible light, radio signals, X-rays, gamma rays, microwave radiation, and any kind of electrical signal.  What distinguishes these things from each other, most fundamentally, is simply their frequency.  And correspondingly their wavelength.  For any electromagnetic wave, and also for acoustic waves for that matter, frequency x wavelength in a particular medium equals propagation velocity in that medium.

Best regards,
-- Al