Ceramic insulator cone under phono stage shocker!

@elizabeth 

I agree and you more thoughtfully explained what I failed to.

Exactly Elizabeth.
Tbh the success I have had with my el cheapo ceramic cones gives me a similar opinion on what I could possibly expect.
For example when I placed 3 under my SUT I was expecting a gain but not in the magnitude it gave. However it was extremely positively addictive!

Sigh! I suppose with that being said I should also try 2 down/ 1 up with those too.......

So many variables, so much music,so little time!

The original Stillpoints: delrin housing w/ a ceramic ball
I used these under my EAR 834P and noticed a difference when I put one inverted.
However, when I bought the ss minis, the effectiveness was moved upwards....then using 3 vs 4...another forward progress was made.

I agree Slaw but one has to draw a line in the sand somewhere or its just crazy world time.

Between my $1 ceramic cones and the pieces of exotic wood I have arriving today I think I have more than enough combos to literally explode my head from the inside out!

It's all about (tuning).

Penny smart and pound foolish.

Actually I prefer my old English saying.

" look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves"

It was not Golden Sound’s claim for the one up two down configuration. That was some customer’s claim. Trust me, the “all points down” configuration is correct. 🤗

I beg to disagree, it’s right there in the installation guide.


https://www.goldensound.com/hd-cone-installation-giudes

Cheapness, I mean financial responsibility, is not always a virtue. Penny smart and pound foolish.  😬 It’s all about the Hardness. The DH cones are the next hardest to diamond. They are NASA grade, harder than other ceramics. The Small DH Cones are what, $39 Set of 3?

It was not Golden Sound’s claim for the one up two down configuration. That was some customer’s claim. Trust me, the “all points down” configuration is correct. 🤗

I am still a little perplexed by both DH and SR claim to use their cones/couplers in either two up/ one down or two down /One up configuration.

Does not make a lot of sense to myself.

But if I had a set I would naturally give it a try.

However between $70 and $250 for a set vs $1 each for the ex Ham radio ceramic cones I am presently using?

The Golden Years for Golden Sound were around 15 years ago when Allen Chang carried the DH cones, Golden Sound Cables, Ultra Tweeters, Acoustic Discs, the Intelligent Chip 🤓 - then he kind of went off the radar and focused primarily on his line of HDMI cables. I was in his room at CES demoing the Intelligent Chip, the pebbles, about five (count ‘em!) of my Promethean springy bases, we even had a Nirvana dual layer iso stand! Hel-loo! Golden Sound speakers, Ultra Tweeters. We had BWS Consulting’s Tube preamp. I spent most of the night before the show treating the room with Peter Belt stuff. We had the water bowls. We even had photos in the freezer that year. OMG! 😛 Those were the Golden Years.

Run for the shadows, run for the shadows
Run for the shadows in these golden years

elizabeth
I wish someone would do some study of the changes in sound different shapes of cones create? And what changes in dnesity cause?) I know there are also ebony flattish cones similar to the flatter DH, also the dome shape have similar type in ebony. (I have both in ebony, plus small and medium dome type in ebony. But I am too preoccupied with my exotic wood blocks to go back and putz around with footer shapes. Plus the THREE vs FOUR business? Maybe next year, once I have really explored the exotic wood enough.

>>>>Been there, done that. And as far as I know I’m the only one who has. We covered that last semester. But don’t dismay. There’s always summer school. Do an Audiogon search for Mohs scale of Hardness and all will be revealed.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audio Conceits

DH  should start an advertising campaign....showing a picture of the (Mediums) along side of Jane or maybe a more recent gal, with a "thought cloud" saying......"the sound you always dreamed about".......

I thought I paid less...recently for a brand new set?

There is a set of the Dh cones on eBay right now at $70.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192973022785

geoff wins the internet today (LOL)...
"That was around the time I would require blindfolds before entering the room. Which, thinking back now seems a little excessive"

BTW, I'm also a fan of the DH cones 

I doubt Geoff brakes for me. : )

@david_ten ,

Your presence here has seemingly acted like GK's "Dark Matter", it has had a controlling effect on him.

I used Super DH Cones on top of components and speakers, as “node dampers.” Anyone recall Totem Beak? At one point in time way back when, maybe fifteen years ago I probably had at least 25 Supers in the room. On walls, too. Oh, and around 50 of the jumbo, medium and small DH Cones, too. I was not shy about using DH Cones. That was around the time I would require blindfolds before entering the room. Which, thinking back now seems a little excessive.

@slaw Yes. : ) The MIGs are a solution, one among many. My response was generic. If someone has them, or can borrow them, they are worth experimenting with. I find they have subtle effects on top of component chassis, as well. 

@david_ten ,

Well it seems to be a lot about "tuning" doesn’t it? Of coarse, and correct me if I'm wrong, but here we're talking about using the MIGs inside a system that has been properly decoupled from it's environment?

I hate to judge too harshly but it certainly seems, just reading what’s on their web site, that they don’t know the difference between damping and grounding and isolation. At a minimum, it’s a little loosey-goosey, to use the technical term.

Thanks @david_ten 

I own some HFTs to level 2. I have currently felt going further with these in my well treated room may not be the best use of money right now. I am impressed with what I heard thus far. I appreciate your feedback.

@slaw   The SR MIG 2.0s work as advertised. Additional detail from SR's website:

"MiG 2.0 builds on the performance of the original MiG with the inclusion of a specially tuned high frequency transducer similar to our HFT room treatments. The 2.0’s balance is extended with high frequency air that makes music sound as if it is decaying into infinity. Perfect for high resolution systems that are well sorted, tube based systems or systems that need help with high frequency extension, simply experiment with your two placement options, Pin-Point and Ambient, to find your perfect system match. You may also want to experiment with MiG’s and MiG 2.0’s for a bespoke solution that fits your system and personal tastes to a tee."

The MIG is also offered in Version 1 form.

I have heard the same thing from a user/customer of DH Cones, the quote is probably still on Golden Sound’s web site. But as I already said that theory doesn’t make sense. People say a lot of things, some of which might not be true. There is no theory I can think of, you know, as a theoretical physicist, why that one down two up theory would ever be true. Whether a the shape is domed, or ballistic or conical all cones act like mechanical diodes. Otherwise you could have a double-pointed cone or one that looks like an egg🥚 We had this class last week. Obviously there are a lot of theories about this stuff floating around.

Geoff, 

The MIGs are a different shape (domed), not sure of the material they're made of. I assume these factors might be different from the usual point/funnel/cone shape. I just think it maybe a possible look to someone who's willing to experiment. There was a set offered here at $100.

slaw
@geoffkait ,

Were you the other one in the van?

>>>>>Possibly.

I’ve heard the “one up two down” theory before. It actually doesn’t make any sense. We’ve been over this before not too long ago. Same thing goes for the all points up theory. It doesn’t make sense. And if it doesn’t make sense it’s probably not true. I suggest filing that theory under old wives tales.

Although I’ve never tried them, the Synergistic Research MIG couplers...I find interesting. According to their literature, they recommend 2 down & 1 up or 1 up & 2 down.

@uberwaltz,

Those rubber/cork isolators were trapping vibes just waiting to get out. Those are mostly used for isolating heavy/noisy industrial equipment. The air handler for my HVAC system in my attic sits on 6 of them.

@geoffkait ,

Were you the other one in the van?

uberwaltz OP
GK, So are you saying in your opinion by placing springs under my sub instead of the now spikes/cups I may find an even greater increase in SQ? That would be a nice move if true.

If there was something better I would have already designed it and be selling it. Whaddya think, Junior, these hands have been soaking in Ivory Liquid?

@slaw 
I would definitely be finding a home/ use for those Stillpoints too.
Sounds like they are working well for you and that is what counts.
Coupling and decoupling at the same time may truly be the key.

Maybe overused by now but more mind boggling results.
Raised my little Denon au320 SUT up on 3 ceramic cones points downwards and probably an even larger SQ improvement than on the Chinook.
It is like a layer of grunge that I never even knew was there was just removed.
Clarity and detail just took a huge leap forward.
Makes you wonder just how much more is left hiding in those little grooves to be discovered.

I guess the transformer in this SUT was a pretty noisy beggar!

Sitting here with a massive grin from ear to ear!

I had thought about using springs under the subs for a while but since I already had the Stillpoints, why let that kind of investment just sit around? Additionally the Stillpoints are a ball n' cup device so from my understanding, the vibrations from above and below dissipate at the ball. IMO, this makes the Stillpoints both a coupler & decoupler.

GK
So are you saying in your opinion by placing springs under my sub instead of the now spikes/cups I may find an even greater increase in SQ?
That would be a nice move if true.

Both, or either, depending on frequency. Decouplers above resonance, couplers at and below. A mechanical low-pass filter.

Well I found some huge spikes in my cupboard, not sure what they came from but was able to adapt them to the bottom of my ML sub.
Have also some nice metal cups for them to sit into with a rubber backing for the floor side which as it is sitting on a solid concrete floor that is tiled is about as good as I can get for now on the cheap.

Distinct improvement in the bass department, tighter more distinct notes more easily discernible as separate notes. And it appears to have merged even better into the system, I really could not tell from my seating position that there is a sub in the system previously but now absolutely not even when looking right at it and knowing that is where the deep bass is coming from my ears tell me it is not.

Works for me so far!

Elizabeth, Thank you for your gentle chastisement. I will try to start new threads for all my silly questions. But thank you for taking pity on me and answering!

👍👍👍

Seriously I had a very good result now I trawl my memory banks in my ht rig years ago.

Had this huge fugly 15 inch sub , boy could it move some air but very wooly sound.
Raised it up on spikes and a huge improvement all round. It still chuffed some at the port but a lot tighter response.

Oh, brother!

Geoff you may be right but I just have this vision of the sub boinging round the room on it's springs......

😯😯😯

Is it just me but don’t springs seem like the obvious choice to put under a sub?

@slaw .

Very much on topic imho.

Now you have me thinking that I need to address my ML sub too.
It is actually sitting on some of those little wood blocks with grooved rubber either side( totally forget the make).

I am sure there is mileage to be had there as well for myself.

But it is nice to hear someone else having a big ah ha moment over something fairly simple as well.

Off to look in my odds n sods box see if I can come up with anything before spending any!

@uberwaltz,

This may be off slightly from the original text of your post but I think serves to give an example of how good/proper isolation can work.

I have (2) Martin Logan Depth i subs in my small listening space. I’ve been using the stock (pretty darn good quality) supplied spikes for years. I have a few sets of Stillpoints Ultra SS that are unused and had always planned on using some under the MLs. I just needed to order some adapters and a few Bullet Spikes and the installation was very easy. I was as you say, "shocked"..... at how much more, clear lower bass info there is now that I really never heard before. The MLs have 3 equally opposing 8" drivers that cancel out almost all vibrations ( the main reason I like them so much in my situation). Having said that and even though they are on a suspended floor, I get this great upgrade in SQ. Oh yeah, the center stage, especially vocals have an enticing new clarity that draws you in.