Cary SLP 98 users, past and present, are there any left?

@billpete ,  I take it that this preamp has settled in for you and is sounding pretty good?

The first time I tried the new Cary, I had the umbilical crossed up and only the phono stage seemed to engage. The PS got quite warm. It still runs warm and that is the question. How warm should it run? It's certainly not too hot to touch

Sorry, @billpete , I have no experience with the SLP-98 to relate to you; however, with my SLP-05, the power supply gets VERY warm after a couple hours of playing.  Not hot enough to burn the palm of my hand, but still, quite warm.  I got the impression from other previous '05 threads that other owner/operators experienced the same thing.  (With that typed, I realize that the '05 utilizes a 5AR4 rectifier tube withing the power supply that the '98 does not, but I am still thinking that all of that warmth is not coming from that tube.)  And I am afraid that when I was running my SP-90 I never did check the power supply to check how warm it was (because I had the power supply on that set up located out of sight/out of mind).

I am not overly crazy about what Cary Audio customer service has devolved to (although it may just be industry standard, and in the old days Cary had me spoiled) but you might try giving them (Cary) a call and asking about that issue.  I'd bet that they will probably tell you to send an email with your question, and (in my experience) it may take a couple of emails before they answer, but that would probably be the route to go.

Where do you normally have your separate channel volume controls?

@billpete , as far as the setting of your L and R input level knobs as related to the setting of your volume knob, I once started a thread about all the gain I have with my SLP-05. (I am only bringing this up because I am thinking the way Cary set the potentiometers up on both preamps would be quite similar). Too make a long story short (and I’ll paste a link to the thread if you are interested in the long story) there were opinions on both sides (surprise!) about setting the two input level knobs. But my ultimate take away was that there was more degradation to the signal the more it had to travel through the pots and having the pots turned all the way up was the next best thing to removing or upgrading them.

After typing that SLP-05 trivia, back in ’99 I bought a second hand SLP-90 that had been (and I quote) "hot rodded by Dennis Had himself." Part of that "hot rodding" included completely taking the input level pots out of the circuit. But the way I looked at it, they can be quite helpful for troubleshooting L & R channel issues so I actually sent it to Cary and had them un-hot rod it.

Anyway, in case it will be helpful (or entertaining) here is a link to that SLP-05 thread that I alluded to:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/too-much-gain-cary-slp05-question?highlight=SLP%2B05%2Btoo%

I am not sure what went wrong with the link I pasted, but since it is too late to edit, I’ll try to paste it again:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/too-much-gain-cary-slp05-question?highlight=cary%2Bslp-05%2Btoo%2Bmuch%2Bgain

Anyway, @billpete

,One question that I have is "Are the L&R input controls doing the exact same thing as the main volume pot or is there something different going on here"?

that is a great question, but it is one that I cannot answer. What I THINK is that they are essentially all doing the same thing, but that the L & R input level pots are not as good a quality as the main volume pot which is why (I THINK) that on paper, or in theory, performance would be best if they were set to maxed out and the main volume pot was the only adjustment used to adjust volume with. But I am unclear on that, so maybe we could get some clarification from @harpo75 on this, as he has been quite generous with his time providing SLP-98 and SLP-05 answers.

So, @harpo75 , on the SLP-98 (and presumably the SLP-05?) are the left and right input level pots doing the same thing as the main volume pot? And would the signal be compromised or degraded if the left and right input level pots were adjusted down from fully maxed out to compensate for all the gain of the SLP-98 (or the SLP-05) and allow for more available real estate using the main volume pot?

So far, I notice a little bit of graininess at the high end at times when things can become shrill. I mostly attribute this to new crappy tubes but time will tell. Overall, I’m very pleased.

. . . my own experience with my preamp probably is not applicable to this. I have had back and forth discussions with @decooney related to Cary preamps and Cary amps, and from him I definitely have gotten the impression that the SLP-98 is voiced for a "sweet" sound (which I would think would be on the "warm" side) which should be on the opposite end of being shrill. The JJ tubes were previously discussed a bit in one of the previous threads and they generally get a bad rap, so I suppose that they could be the culprits. I’d still say if you can be patient enough (and I have always had a hard time with that, myself), give the tubes you have in it a chance to break in/burn in/mature and then see which way you think you need to go.

Although I think my own experiences are not applicable to the SLP-98, my SLP-90 is/was quite warm sounding and it made nearly everything I played sound fun and happy. So perhaps it was more forgiving of sub par source material (and with that typed, my source is strictly CDP). When I replaced that preamp with my SLP-05, what I noted was that with real good source material, the SQ was dramatically better--wider, higher . . . more/better detail and air and imaging and sound stage . . . but with poorly recorded/mixed/mastered source material . . . yuk. There are CDs with music I like that I don’t bother putting in my CDP anymore.

From what @decooney has said about his SLP-98, I would tend to think (but I may be reading into it) that the SLP-98 would lean tonally in the direction of what I found with my SLP-90 (but way more refined) as opposed to the direction I feel my ’05 goes.

. . . this should be a download for the manual on yours:

https://www.caryaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/SLP-98_manual.pdf

I believe yours is the SLP-98 with the 'P' suffix?

I do not have a book on this preamp but will try to find one sooner or later.

@billpete , if you go to Cary Direct’s site, you may be able to find a manual to download. It might take some screwing around and navigating if they are not showing a SLP-98 that you can click on, but if all else fails, I am about 99.9% sure that if you call them on the ph and speak to the sales dept (they will actually talk to you on the ph if you want to buy something) they would sell you one.

It slipped my mind when I posted that you were inquiring about the 6sn7s. I recall that on a 6sn7 thread that a member, @mulveling , had some good things to say about the re-issued TungSol 6sn7. I am not trying to start a separate discussion or argument, but the only reason I have not tried them is a personal one. Again, not that my ’05 experience is applicable, mine came with EHs and it was still a better sounding pre than my SLP-90 was with more expensive 12AU7s. As I am pretty sure I have already mentioned on one of these threads, I am running with a pair of vintage 6sn7s (or variants) for my balanced inputs (one of the differences in our preamps) and am combining that with four more JJ 6sn7s in the other slots and I THOUGHT at the time after I made the switch that I liked the JJs better than the EHs, but that may have been because I WANTED it to sound better. Regardless, as I think I have also previously typed on one of these ’98 threads, a quad of better, probably vintage, 6sn7s is on my short list.

Thanks. I have read through this on Cary Direct several times. It isn't terribly thorough.

No, @billpete , the Cary manuals are not well detailed when it comes to tech info, but I am thinking that you will be hard pressed to find much else available.  Thanks to @harpo75 on these last few threads, I have learned way more about my '05 than I ever learned from the owner's manual.

I don't see anything in the owners manual that says the function of the 6SN7 slots as to which ones do what.

@harpo75 could probably help you out with that also, or maybe you could find a review online (such as Stereophile) that might talk about that.  (They actually did on my '05.)

 It does say that the SLP 98 is phase inverted so that speaker wires should be reversed.?????????????????? I have not reversed mine and I certainly do not think that I'm out of phase. Wouldn't I be without bass?

I think that now we are getting into the difference between absolute phase and relative phase which is another (of many) subjects I am terribly bereft of understanding on. Possibly @atmasphere  or @harpo75 would help us out on this as well but my initial thought is it might be a good idea to try red to black on BOTH sides as it would not hurt anything, and seeing as how Cary is saying that it is phase inverted, it might actually be an improvement of somewhat.  I remember that you said the highs were somewhat shrill at times, and who knows(?), reversing speaker cables on BOTH sides might have a positive effect on that.  It is free and easy to try, and if it were me, I would try it.

Wouldn't my system sound terrible if I have the speakers wired out of phase?

@billpete , even though you addressed this to @decooney, I'll quickly butt in to say that if BOTH speakers were hooked up red to black they would not be out of phase with each other (if that's what you meant), and since the SLP-98 is phase inverted, I think that this would put them in phase with the preamp.  I think this is the difference between absolute phase and relative phase.  I think.  @erik_squires  is someone else who could probably clear this up for us. 

(My CDP has a phase inversion switch so the phase of the CDP, in balanced mode, can be matched to the preamp; for a while I misunderstood the way my preamp was set up and I had the phase set wrong on my CDP and I could not hear a difference.  Which is not to say that there was not a difference, just not one that jumped out and slapped my face.  But it could be the difference between listening fatigue and  happiness at the end of a multi hour session.)

@decooney , well, if I thought I was confused before I read through that thread, there is no doubt I am confused now!  LOL!  I'll try it again in the morning when I am "fresh", or as fresh as I ever am these days.  

 It seems very odd to me that Cary would make a preamp this way but the manual clearly states that you have to wire your speakers the reverse of normal. 

@billpete , a few years ago (I've lost track) before I bought my '05 I saw a '98 listed on either Uncle Kevin's site or on Cary's preowned section, and I was interested in it and giving it some consideration. After downloading the manual and reading it,  I remember posting a question on Audio Asylum asking why a manufacturer would intentionally design a preamp as phase inverted.  Someone answered, and I cannot remember the answer which means I probably did not understand it.  I'll see if I can find that question on AA and if so I'll tell you what I was told then . . . but I don't have high hopes because the search function there is not as good as it is here and since I deleted my membership there I cannot log in and find it by retrieving my old posts.

Anyway, you did say that you are going to reverse your + & - hookups at your speakers, and I am thinking why not.  After all, as I typed before--easy and free.  After reading the responses and through that thread that was posted, I am inclined to now think that it won't make an audible difference, but I'd still say to try it.

As far as what you said about this being why maybe some source material just sounds bad, that is the same thing I was thinking after I finished reading that thread.  But now, I am thinking probably not.  Regardless, with some of those CDs that meet that criteria (just don't sound very good) I think maybe I will try them with the phase switch of my CDP set to inverted just to see if they sound any better.

I am doing the same as you are with standby/on/off. Standby seems to me that it would shorten the life of tubes.

@billpete , I was going to throw a couple of cents in, but I got distracted by something else; anyway, my SLP-90 also has a standy switch (I am sure the '94 did as well) and I used to leave it off most of the time also.  If I remember, when I was going to listen (and I am no longer someone whose system is playing all day long, slthough I miss those days) I'd put it in stand by for a while before I would turn it to 'on'.  I am sure this will be debunked, but in my mind it was sort of (sort of are the operative words) a soft start.  I say sort of because I think all that happens in standby are that the heater filaments are getting power, so the tubes are already warm to some degree.

On the standby subject, and this is probably tmi, in '94 I bought my first tube amp; it was a Cary SLA 70 Signature and it also had a standby switch.  I was totally new to tubes (or better end altogether) back then, and I made so many stupid mistakes and called cary tech support up with so many stupid questions . . . anyhow, that little amp has four 6550 output tubes and I left it in standby 24/7 X 365.  Somewhere down the road, probably after tubes were worn out and I was trying to figure out what was wrong, I was talking to this great tech guy Cary had at the time (a big shout out to Kirk Owens, where ever he may be now) and he told me that it was not his advice to have my amp always in standby.

Ramble on. . . . 

@decooney , did you ever try the EH Gold Pin 6sn7s?