Carver Raven 350 Amps

grannyring,

So, you have heard it? I can't seem to find any reviews for it.

ozzy

33heffery,

Yes, I am curious also. With the Carvers stated 350 watt/ch that should be more than enough power. 

Perhaps the Carver did not have enough bass compared to the PS BHK 300?
Please explain more.

ozzy

erj1963,

Thanks I wish I could hear them.

P.S. I still own the Carver M400 cube amp.

ozzy

333jeffery,

Thank you for the reply.

ozzy

Well I have not found much info about these amps on the internet and it looks like not much in the way of Audiogon users either.

ozzy

m-db,

Thank you so much for your reply.
Have you ever heard the Atma-Sphere M-60 amps?
I like their sound, just don't know how they would compare to the Carvers.

ozzy

dracule1,

Well thank you for that comparison. It is very appreciated.
The newer version of the M-60's (the Mk3.3) is supposed to have taken care of most of the previous problems and the sound quality is said to have been greatly improved. Although, I can't tell since this the only unit(s) I have owned.  

I have only had one output tube fail in more than a year of operation. Dam Russians...
I'm also crossing over at 80hz and using some very (DIY) high efficiency flat line 8 ohm speakers. The M-60 meter barely moves.

But, I would like to try in the future some Martin Logan or Magnapan speakers and I know that I will need different amps to use with them.
So the Carver is on my short list.

ozzy

dracule1,

I have heard from others that the Carver Raven 350 has a severe drop off in the higher frequencies. I am concerned about that. Can you comment more about that?

Thanks, ozzy

dracule 1,

So you think the Carvers 350's have a decent top end?
Even the review of the 305 hints about a darken sound.

ozzy

dracule 1,

Thank you for your help. I need to find some place to audition them.

ozzy

Well I went ahead an ordered a Carver Raven 350. Not quite sure how long it will take to get it though.

ozzy

Ok, thanks. I am looking forward to trying them. BTW, I did talk to Bob Carver.

Can you recommend speakers for the Bob Carver Raven 350?
I like 60-80’s rock and perhaps some jazz and more recent music.
I must admit at times I do like to crank it up...

I have (2) JL Audio Fathoms F-113 subs with an electronic crossover in my Preamp (DEQX). So the speakers would not have to handle much below 80hz.

I have owned Legacy Focus, Eggleston Works Andra 2, Von Schweikert and a few others. Nowadays I would prefer less bulky, less boxy speakers.

I just listened to the new Focal Kanta 2. It had a good mid range and soundstage but the little 6.5 woofers were having trouble in the bass. However, with my subs that probably wouldn’t be a problem. I did like the way they looked.

I also just listened to the Magnapan 3.7i’s and was sorely disappointed. As most agree they are not rock music speakers. I knew they wouldn’t do the lower end but I was surprised how much they lacked in dynamics.

ozzy

dracule1,

Definitely Bob's speakers would be the right choice. However, they are a bit too $$$ high. So, I'm looking for other options.

ozzy

Thanks, I’ll check them out.

My present DIY speakers consist of one Aurum Cantus G-1 Ribbon tweeter and one 7" ScanSpeak woofer. I used Mundorf SGO caps, Janzen Inductors and Path Audio resistors. They are crossing over to 2 JL Audio Subs at 80hz.

So, I would like speakers to have enough surface area to reflect a large soundstage but not necessarily deep bass. That’s why I thought of the Magnapan. And... I also want them to look cool or unique.

ozzy

Just talked to Bob and he says my Raven 350 amps should be shipping this week.

ozzy

Thanks, interesting. What about the different ohm taps in the back? Should I experiment with these also?

ozzy

arcticdeth,

I hear ya, cost is always the factor. The units were shipped and then were requested to be returned back to the sender. So, I hope this gets straightened out.

ozzy

Well it looks like I should get the Carver Raven 350's today.

ozzy

erichgs,

Did you bring the Carver amps home? 

ozzy

jond,

I'm a rebel... 
No, I like the sound of Planar and Electrostatic speakers but I know my current amps wouldn't work with them. It will be hard to part with my Atma-Sphere amps though because they sound so good.

ozzy 

jond,

There are many including the Sanders, Magnapan, and the Martin Logan. All are difficult loads to drive.

ozzy

Question:

I have noticed considerable hiss coming from my speakers with the Carver amps. When I turn off my preamp the hiss goes away.
So, I’m thinking that the hiss is not coming from the amps but from the preamp or other upstream components.

My DEQX preamp has adjustable input/output settings that have not reduced the hiss. There are also internal jumpers to increase/decrease the preamp output but at this time I have not changed them.

I do not hear this hiss when I use my Atma-Sphere amps.

erichgs, dracue 1, or others, any suggestions?

ozzy

erichgs,

Thanks for your reply. I would not describe the hiss as hum, but it is quite noticeable sitting even 15 feet away from the speakers with no music playing.
The Atma-Sphere are pretty much quiet compared to the Carvers.

I just tried reducing the Carver volume knob and it does reduce the hiss but it probably also reduces the overall volume too, hopefully not too much.

ozzy

Erichgs, Dracule 1,

Are you using the volume setting on the Carver at full level?
I can reduce the hiss if I reduce the Carver volume knob to the 12:00-1:00 position, but, by doing that am I reducing the Carver 350 watts per channel capability?

ozzy

erichgs,

If I connect the output from my Direct Stream Dac directly to the Carver amps there is very little hiss.
But if I connect the Direct Stream output to the input of the BSG QOL or to my DEQX Premate preamp and then to the Carver amps I get the hiss. Either piece of equipment will cause the hiss. 

Bob Carver suggests reducing significantly (50% from full level) the Carver volume control and just turn up the level on the DEQX Preamp. To do this I would be playing the DEQX Preamp at its 85-95% top settings. I'm not sure I like that.

When my Atma-Sphere Amps are used instead of the Carvers there is complete silence.

I don't know what more to do. 

All of my equipment has true balanced connections and quality balanced interconnects are used. The Carver even though it has a XLR input it is still just a single ended connection. I think if the Carver amps had a true balanced input there would be no problem.

ozzy

erichgs, and others.

Well I finally found the reason for the hiss.

I was using the XLR output of the DEQX preamp with a XLR cable into the Carver XLR input.

Since the Carver does not have a true balanced input (but my DEQX preamp does have a true balanced output) you have to use the rca (single ended) output from the preamp into the Carver inputs.

Confusing but it makes sense. Single ended output to single ended input. Simple as that.

That being said the Carver amp really should not have a xlr input connection without it being a true balanced connection. What would be the use?

Anyway, I now have a DEAD silent connection, no hiss or hum etc.

ozzy

erichgs,

No need to. Bob says the RCA and XLR are wired together as a single ended input. The XLR is there for convenience not for a true balanced connection. So either rca or xlr should perform the same.

ozzy

erichgs,

Yes dead quite. If there is any noise I can't hear it. 
BTW, I also placed rca non shorting caps on the rca inputs. Perhaps that's what took it to zero noise.
Everything matters...

Now to experiment with input tubes...

ozzy

erichgs,

I have moved my jumper and output settings on my DEQX premate to its highest output settings and still no hum. 
I can't tell you how satisfying it is to have discovered the source of the hiss. It was amazing that I missed something so obvious for a week.

smokenjo,

They can be purchased from  many places. I bought mine off of EBay from a guy located in Michigan, they are of  very high quality and with fast delivery. Now remember these are caps not shorting plugs. I have used them on all of my unused rca and xlr input/output throughout my system.

ozzy 

Actually the caps do help to keep stray RF/EMI out of the signal path.

ozzy

erichgs,

Some equipment does not work well with the inputs shorted.
I am using the DEQX as an electronic crossover and to blend the subs with my main speakers in the room. And it is quite a complicated piece of equipment that can make a big difference.

ozzy

So I am going to keep the Carvers since they allow me to try other "hard to drive" speakers. Quads, Electrostatics, and Planers are on my list to try.

I must say though my Atma-Sphere M-60 3.3’s are very nice sounding amps that I hope I do not regret selling.

I have an ad on the "Gon’" for their sale right now with over 800 views in 4 days!

ozzy

smokenjo,

I am using the Cerious Matrix power cords 3 meters long each!

ozzy

erichgs,

Upgrading the power cords has provided a fairly impressive sonic improvement. Don’t sell this upgrade short.
Another improvement can be made by changing the supplied 12ax7 input tube to a vintage Telefunken tube.

And believe it or not I found upgrading the 1A fuse to a SR Red was also significant. Later on I’m going to replace the red for a blue fuse. But only after I’m confident the tubes have settled down and will no longer pop the fuse.

The DEQX has quite the learning curve, but once mastered it can provide great integration between subs, mains and the room.

ozzy

erichgs,

Yes, according to Bob Carver the 12ax7 is the tube most sensitive to upgrades. Stick with Telefunken tubes that were made in West Germany vintage 1960's. Decent condition ones cost about $120-$150 a pair.
EBay is probably the best place to find a selection.

ozzy

Well congrats! 
What speakers are you using?

ozzy

erichgs,

I also purchased the DEQX used but it did come in a DEQX box.

smokenjo,

I agree give them a try. The only other tubes that I have tried is the Telefunken and the ones that came with the amp.

ozzy

I just installed Telefunken 12AT7 tubes and they also complement the Telefunken 12AX7 with the Carvers.

ozzy

erichgs,

Well its nice to know that we both hear the same noise (hiss).
Bob Carver doesn’t really believe me. He thinks there is something wrong with the DEQX.
Oh well, at least with using the RCA outs on the DEQX to the Carver it is dead quite.

BTW, have you mastered the DEQX?

ozzy

erichgs,

There are a lot of settings in the DEQX and it can be difficult to master. The instructions make you jump back and forth. I was just wonderin’ if you have it figured out yet. I have found that my main DIY speakers sound best without any DEQX adjustments but the sub crossover, delay and mixing with the main is valuable.

On the tubes, is it the sum of both of the Telefunken tubes or is one slot better than the other?

ozzy

To those that own these amps, I just installed a couple of the SR Blue fuses in them and it really adds to the smoothness of the soundstage.
Highly recommended.

ozzy

erichgs,

No I just exchanged the 1A fuse with the SR 1.6A Blue in slow blow. 

ozzy

No, I just put them in with the writing on the fuse going from front to back.
Sounded real good so I left them in that direction.

ozzy

Well I did a disservice to the Carver Raven 350 Amps based on one of my previous posts about hiss coming from the Carver amps when using the balanced outputs from my DEQX.

I discovered that my DEQX preamp had some internal output jumpers in the wrong place. Either the previous owner or somewhere earlier I did it.

Once corrected these amps are now the purist best dynamic amps I have ever heard, beit solid state or tube.

ozzy

david_ten,

Well its funny, the DEQX jumper situation didn’t really surface until I got the Carver speakers. 
This week I will post more on the speaker thread.

ozzy

erichgs,

Yes, I have the 6 jumpers on the fourth setting plus the 2 on the input at the 2-3 setting. For a total of 8 jumpers being used.

ozzy

I'm still lovin' mine.

ozzy

drkingfish,

When you say you are using the Psvanes on the front end, are you referring to the input tubes in the Carver 350?

I have been using Telefunken there. So, I wonder if the Psvanes would be better than the Telefunken's?
I may buy a set to try.

ozzy

Even though I really like the vintage Telefunken tubes that I am using, I went ahead an ordered a couple of the Treasure 12ax7LS super tubes to try.

ozzy

Thanks, Hopefully I will have the Treasure Super tubes soon to try.
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/

ozzy