Dear @luisma31 : As I already told you you just don't understand about and that's why you posted a wrong question because loading of a cartridge is not because its output level but because its internal electric characteristics and the phono stage ones.
It does not matters who whom addresses your question. Your knowledge levels are extremely low.
I don't care if you are friend of him that does not changes your wrong question and your comment " all the rigth answers " where exist no answer in the post.
R.
Raul, I also like luisa31 have read your post here on gone for quite some time and have enjoyed them and they have always have been respectful. Why now are you being so mean to others? I would have never suspected you for being a bully? |
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elliottbnewcombjr, Actually you and I are not to far off. You just have had maybe a little more time (and maybe money☺!) than my hihfi budget can afford right now. My current phono preamp is MM only but my next phono pre upgrade will have a internal SUT. I actually have been a big fan of JICO styli too but right now I’m only interested in vintage cartridges such as the Audio Technica AT-ML180/OCC or OFC cartridges and the OEM corresponding styli. atmasphere, I’ve always admired the courteous and gracious manner when you respond to others posts. You remind me of an old school gentleman always willing to share and teach in layman like terms to explain the most complex points of music reproduction. Please don’t change, for no one. And much thanks to you for helping me understand what an OTL tube rig is. Although I do agree with others here that the stylus and cartridge maybe more important than the tone arm WHEN mechanically reproducing sound from vinyl. scar972, This thread is actually quite tepid compared to some others here on gone, or haven’t you noticed before? |
daveyf,
I have a question for you. And this is not for arguments sake. I'm just curious.
When a blank piece of vinyl is cut at the factory, in your opinion which is more important. The cartridge/stylus making the grooves or the tone arm?
Thanks |
Yeah chakster the only reason I haven’t gotten back to you is the funds aren’t available yet. |
And stylus is user replaceable. About the modern day Audio Technica carts, I was ready to plunk down the money for the Audio Technica AT-ART9 Moving Coil Cartridge until I read here on agon (again chakster) that the stylus was not replaceable! Needless to say that was quite a shock to an old head hifi guy like myself. |
@ klooker I wouldn’t throw out that Shure V15VxMR cartridge with the Jico SAS stylus/boron shaft just yet. Put it away while you’re using the AT33PTG/2 Dual Moving Coil Cartridge and every once in awhile you’ll notice a NOS Shure VN5xMR stylus come up for sale for very reasonable pricing and that (is the) original (replacement) stylus made for the Shure V15VxMR cartridge and will make it sing to a whole different level than the Jico SAS. That’s also something I’ve learned from @chakster is to use an original NOS stylus, if you can get it for your vintage cartridge of choice. |
@elliottbnewcombjr,
Thanks for the correction! I think it was a lack of sleep mistake.
I'd love to hear any opinions, suggestions, and experiences with those cartridges or others in the price range. I could possibly go higher if there is something out there that really shines for less than $1,500.
@Klooker, chakster has on this site some very comprehensive lists of cartridges you may want to try to find for your review and should not be to hard to find in the Agon search. |
+1 @ rauliruegas, You bring up a valid point. If a tonearm has a removable headshell, then the cartridge is definitely more important than a metal tube with wires and is height and level adjustable, I would think. Very similar to a boom with a detachable mic that swivels and has a detachable connector. And I also think that Azimuth can only be adjusted on the headshell itself and not the tonearm, whether the headshell is removable or nonremovable. Thanks R! |
This is a very simple fact with which all audiophiles are intimately familiar if they have used a turntable! I really don’t get why anyone would argue the other way, unless for the sport of it... Ralph, I am of the opinion that it’s ok to be wrong as long as you are trying to see the other person’s viewpoint and hopefully learning from each other. That being said I tried to find analogies of a recording being made with an album being played. So I looked up the best recording session I could think of and came up with Miles Davis’s Kind of Blue sessions. I noticed in pictures of those sessions microphones and all types of recording ’booms’. Is it a fair analogy to think of a mic as similar to the functions of a cartridge since a mic is also a transducer? And is it also fair to see a boom as similar to the functions of a tone arm since it has also inside of the boom wires that carry the music’s electric signal from the mic to the recording magnetic tape? Which brings up another analogy of the magnetic tape being similar to an album or platter being cut directly from what’s being played (recorded) by the mic? If so, the mic is far more important than the boom. And for the life of me I still see the cartridge as far more complex feat of engineering and more important than the (overpriced) tone arm which I think is a scaled down version of a boom? Am I wrong? I’m trying to learn here - as ’sport’ has nothing to with cartridge options. Thanks all |
Right here is where the analogy falls apart. A mic boom is simply holding the mic in the right location, but in that regard is rigid and does not have to articulate. It doesn’t need much in the way of adjustments and they come in different sizes depending on application. Certainly no worries about things like effective mass, mechanical resonance 7-12Hz or the like. Ralph, I agree more with you than not. As I have done all the tweaking to my Pioneer table arm as it has every tonearm adjustment you can think of. You know how I know? Because it is APITA! And you certainly have taught me some things and know far more about audio engineering than I do. And here comes the but. But doesn’t all the magic happen in the (LIVE) recording venue of the studio? The position, location and placements of (booms) mics, musicians, room sound treatments, the experience level of a competent recording engineer ect? Am I wrong to notice not only the science of a recording but the ART form as well? I think there is a bit more that goes INTO a recording than what you say above. And if you look at pictures of the Kind of Blue session, they do show articulating booms with multiple joints. Remember this was at the house of Columbia Records. To this day when I hear a Rudy Van Gelder engineered album that is a great pressing, I’m still blown away at his technique.That’s all I’m saying. And you know what’s really confusing? There’s just as many arguments from audiophiles with some of the best systems known to man and they swear by only using a headshell alignment tool and their ears! Ralph, thanks again for taking the time to teach, us all. |
@ cd318, Now I’m more confused? Or is it more enlightened? I have a vintage Pioneer PL-630 Quartz PLL Electronic Full Automatic turntable that is in mint condition and has a fantastic tonearm. What I have noticed about this particular table is it is designed with the idea of the turntable as a complete system to complement each part and function of the table to act as one combined unit for a more precise performance. No aftermarket tonearm needed nor wanted here.
Also what I forgot to realize is that different engineers attack a design in all matter of different ways to find ways for optimum performance. I shouldn’t be surprised at this realization as I have worked in engineering all my life and have constantly had to ’revise’ engineering drawings as I am a draftsman. You can spout all the 'white papers' and studies you want. I have to find out for myself. And another thing, a headshell is NOT a tonearm, last time I checked. Although that could change, at any time.... |
When i have been in a recording studio as a pro studio player, not once did I see the boom moving around any type of axis to follow what the mic was doing (Yikes). Hey davey boy, Of course a boom doesn’t move around to follow a axis in a recording studio. You’ve completely taken what I wrote and twisted it to fit your bullsh*t to talk down to someone you don’t agree with. |
@tyray I fail to see the relevance of the question in your last post? Hey daveyf, What a snarky post. I try real hard to always have a civil conversation here and somehow I think you feel as if you think you are better or somehow more knowledgeable than some others here on this thread. The cutting tool that is mounted on the end of the arm on a cutting lathe at the time of the lacquer mastering is not a cartridge/stylus. This statement is complete and utter bullsh*t. There’re many types of styli used in a lathe cutter head. There also are drive coils which act in a similar fashion as a cartridge. But if you are asking if that cutter is more important than the arm to which it is attached to, i would say again.. no. No stylus, no drive coils, no cutting head, no master, no commercial record period. Firstly, it is rookie and not roockie. This is where you’ve pissed me off the most. You taking issue with Rauls impeccable english writing skills. Your subliminal bigotry is not wanted, welcome nor needed here. This is the second time on this thread that someone has mistakenly made comments about Raul’s english writing skills on this thread. Raul does not and I repeat does not use a translation tool to communicate here. If he did those of us who know, that a internet translation tool really screws up the translation. What you see is actually Raul’s very good grasp of american styled english. I would not doubt if Raul not only speaks english, but french, portuguese and italian also. It’s a damn pity the most americans only speak one language, even though we supposedly have the best schools. Go figure.
my Blackbird has built in micrometer to adjust VTA, easy, precise, wonderful,
but, the cartridge is fixed directly to the long carbon arm. Azimuth adjustment by rotating the carbon tube a speck in it’s snug rear housing, tighten with set screw.
The SOB’s put the set screw on the bottom, what misery to get it right, the worst design feature. As azimuth is critically important, many a curse was issued, I should learn Russian to curse in their language.
elliottbnewcombjr
Thanks Elliot, I think the differences between a detachable headshell w/ tonearm and one piece tonearms are are good to know. |
Firstly, it is rookie and not roockie. So this is a relevant statement to this thread? Not at all. |
@rauliruegas,
Oh my gosh, those are some turntable setups!
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/3080#&gid=1&pid=6
Do you use any vacuum tube gear in your system?
Now I'm beginning to understand why you are so passionate about anything to do with turntables...
Are you an expert in all things turntable? I don't know, but you're pretty darn close.
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