I had the best years for klipsch when Paul was still arround all mine had alnico mags etc. My new horns use 8-15in woofers 4 per front horn with alnico comp mid horn and alnico comp tweeters. When I wake 1st thing I do is turn the big system on. Use if most all day for its in my home office and I work at home;) I owned avantgarde duo 2.2 was nice but not anywhere near the performance of what Iam running now.
Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil
I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.
I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.
There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)
In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)
So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.
1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.
Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.
So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.
different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.
All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!
Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.
For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?
When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)
The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.
The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.
I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.
There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)
In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)
So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.
1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.
Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.
So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.
different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.
All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!
Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.
For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?
When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)
The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.
The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.
3,012 responses Add your response
On the Klipsch forum it is like all things some say just get an inexpensive rebuild and some go all out and think it worth it. You could be right I am unsure that is part of this post it is not a forgone outcome on whether it was worth it. Mundorf Silver in Oil has been the most recommended at the high end with out going to the crazy high end. I have just been reading about the Avantgarde. I have never heard them but it is interesting. You have not said were you Klipsch pre or post 1980? I had a set of Herresy II's and a friend had the older I's and his were much better. I was ticked when I seen the parts they were using. Did you try the Alico magnets? |
I wouldnt spend so much on parts. If crossover needs rebuild I would ask about on the klipsch forum bet someone could tell you where to get the most bang for your buck. I have access to many costly parts transducers etc. I kind of just threw money at the problem a bit of over kill. To see if I could take my klipschs to extreme performance limits;) Many folks who post are looking for someone to agree that what they are doing or have done etc is the right way. If you disagree folks can get angry so I feel most just keep - things to themselfs. |
JohnK on your Klipshorns and Lascala's were they pre 1980 models? There is I feel a BIG difference! My Lascala's are 1980's and split the generation. They have ceramic tweeters and Alnico mids and (I think) ceramic woofer magnets. I always wondered why mine sounded so much better than a friends Khorns and he had much better gear. His were newer and all ceramic. It is the mids incidentaly that I always thought amazing! Maybe regular speakers don't show the Alnico importantance but horns do. I know Alnico costs wayyyy more but worth every penny as far as I can see. I am getting Alnico tweeter for mine. |
John I have not put the Mundorf's in yet but you could be right. What I could not find was info on what the sound difference was people would just say they did or did not like it. This will put it into perspective. (the perspective of is it wise to spend 1k on a crossover on speakers worth barely more than 1k) |
Day 2. Yesterday the speakers seemed so dynamic today second thoughts on the repair. I am hearing less of the positives and more of the break-up in sound quality. Is it going to be worth the 1k???? I hope they come back to life. L When volume turned down they do not sound as bad turning them up reveals the hard sound. Should be around 1 week until nw crossover is in. I hope this info will help people in the future looking at spending as much on speakers to bring back to life as the value of the speakers. (used) Wondering if you are doing the right thing. At this time I have no idea how I will feel in the end. Ecstatic or did I just throw 1k into the wind???? |
I tried many many amps pres etc while I owned the klipschs I always had other loudspeakers and systems about so easy to compare. Not saying klipsch is bad just klipsch might not be right for others. If your looking to improve on a k horn tweeters and crossovers are a good start. Next address the cabinets. When I built a doubled baltic birch ply cabinet with modern damping the bass was greatly improved as was the imaging, think cabinet vibration smeared image from mid and tweeter. |
Johnk I can understand Klipsch not for everyone. What kind of amps? I had used Bryston and it was awful on Klipsch. They are very sensitive. What kind of new horns? I can see new being better but have not heard any of the top new horns. Also digital and horns is not the best either. Any harshness up the chain is exposed in an often painful way. I know Arthur Salvatore has higher ranked horns but $27k is wayyy out of my range since Lascala's are only worth 1k to 1.5k. So even with 1k into crossovers still less than 10% of those speaker cost. http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Speakers.html#ClA I would like to hear the mega $ speakers though just as a reference. Right now I have not heard better than Lascala except older Khorns. This post (and I have no idea how it is going to go) is going to help the person (who like me) is trying to get the most out of pretty cheap speakers. |
On my Klipsch I used dorf silver golds. Still wasent so hot so used fostex t900a a big step up. Still not as good as I hoped so upgraded woofers a bit better but still just ok. So damped rebuilt cabinet much better but still not as nice as my modern horns so I replaced midrange with JBL mid horn with a dukane. Again big improvement over stock but I ended up with little to nothing that was klipsch so I used the old horns crossover drivers cab etc and rebuilt the orignal khorn and agoned them. Tried Lascalas ended up upgrading those till most nothing was left. For me klipsch are cool but not my cup of tea. |
I found this site http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html to be most useful. The Mundorf silver/oil in combination with Clarity I installed in the tweeter and mids removed all the harshness I had with the junk originally installed. |