Tas and John(Reynolds853),
You two clearly understand my point and frame of reference. Salectric, I've always found you comments insightful and worthwhile, but here's the difference. You and I have different missions or objectives. I want to achieve the best sound I can with my current components and system overall at a reasonable cost, that's it(just fine tune what I own).You have taken a more rigorous and analytical approach and are much more interested in comparing various parts and components. You are clearly a more intense audiophile then I am and that's perfectly fine.I simply have no interest in the constant comparision of this vs that and patiently notating the sometimes subtle points of each product.
Your Pioneer-ARC analogy is on the mark as regards to Solen vs Duelund CAST.This is why I use terms such as stark contrast and profound improvement. I never have or will I proclaim CAST the "best" capacitor, I have no way to prove that(and what would it mean anyway?). My simple reason for posting on this thread was to make others aware that very significant SQ improvement is available merely by upgrading to these wonderful capacitors. That is my only intention. I don't care that another cap is as good or worry that there's something out there that's even better.It isn't worth the constant comparision process, but for you or Grannyring it is and that's great, I enjoy reading both of you and your findings.I spent a lot of time listening to music and anything that increases the natural/organic character is what I want.The CAST did this in abundance. Could other caps do the same? Sure some others can, but it's there with the CAST now, so no motivation to experiment with another capacitor, I'm happy already.This wouldn't satisfy your quest and you'd be compelled to try other capacitors(I understand that).
I won't lose sleep worrying if the Jupiter Cu foil is better than my CAST. As far as I'm concerned they're both excellent products and either would be a major upgrade for the vast majority compared to most "stock" capacitors.
Sal, you and I have different motives and goals and neither is wrong. This is a passionate hobby and there are many ways to obtain happiness with one's audio system.Sal I'll continue to read and appreciate your contributions.
Best Regards,
Charles, |
Sal,
+1, you summed it up well. I'm glad that the Ocellia cables worked for you as well as they did for me.
Charles, |
I will have the capacitors installed tomorrow and then post an early impression in a few days. |
I'm considering changing the capacitors in my amplifier's 1st gain stage(associated with the 6em7 driver tube section). The Jupiter Cu foil has my interest(given the praise posted here). However I've been so pleased with the Duelund CAST effect in my DAC and speakers(truly brilliant results). It will be one or the other if I go forward. I suspect that either capacitor will one will be fine.Volleyguy, I'm curious to read your comparison of these two products. |
Hi Volleyguy,
I eagerly look forward to your comparisons, my admiration and success with the Duelund CAST is quite similar to yours. You are a very good reference point for me. I do subscribe to the natural vs synthetic material idea. While I certainly accept the "implementation" argument, I do lean toward the better sound with natural material concept. So I'd gravitate towards paper in oil or wax rather than teflon/plastics generally speaking. My interconnects and speaker cable(Ocellia Silver Reference) adhere to the "natural" material (dielectric") principle and they are beautiful and utterly organic in character/tone with excellent resolution. Take your time and report back when you're ready.
Thanks,
Charles, |
Volleyguy,
Gon member Snopro has the same SET amplifier as I do. On his system page he says he replaced the stock Solens(used with the 6em7 input/driver tube)with the Jupiter Cu foil. He is pleased with the results and said burn in was 200 hours in his case.
Charles, |
Hi Roxy54,
Congratulations on your new amplifier. The AN Kit amps have a very good reputation for sound quality(I've no personal experience with them). As long as you have an appropriate speaker match you should really enjoy them for many years. I understand they offer various output transformer upgrade choices as well as other parts.
Charles, |
Hi Bigkidz and Regismc,
Thanks for sharing your extensive observations. I don't doubt for a moment that one capacitor may be preferable to another depending on needs and application. There's no perfect product that satisfies everyone under any and all circumstances.
Charles, |
Roxy54,
What I understand is that C core transformers are considered highly desirable for SET amps per Audio Note engineer Andy Grove. My amplifier's builder insists on the use of double C core transformers as well. I don't really know the technical aspects but I'll take their "informed" word based on my listening impressions. I believe that you have purchased a very fine SET amplifier.
Charles, |
Joe,
At what point in terms of hours did the treble begin to open up? Given the high baseline organic character of the Frankenstein it is intriguing the Jupiter Cu foil increases this attribute further. |
I've decided to give the Jupiter Cu foil capacitors a go in my Frankenstein MK II amplifier. Joe and Grannyring's experiences are very persuasive. I know what the Duelund CAST has done for me and love them. Enough people have directly compared these two and concluded that the Jupiter is the sonic equal or perhaps better for considerably less money. All I require is 1 pair (1 cap for each mono bock) and that's it. There's lots of space in the amplifier for either brand of capacitor. I'm hooked on the natural dielectric material design as well. The more I think about it, as wonderful as the Frankenstein sounds, either of these two should honestly be an upgrade to the generic Solens capacitor (I'll see if this is in fact true). Carefully fine tuning already proven audio components has been successful for me so far. I hope that trend continues with this decision.
Charles, |
Hi Joe,
I'm doing this primarily out of curiosity. This capacitor is in the signal path so it must affect the sound to "some" degree.I suspect the interstage transformer has a more important role in this circuit. However it seems all parts matter in audio components. The Frankenstein sounds excellent with the stock Solens capacitor, what will the Jupiter capacitor change? I'll soon find out.
Charles, |
Thanks for the tip Bill. I'm ordering the Jupiter caps next week and look forward to hearing what sonic changes they will provide in the Frankenstein. Bill, how many hours of use until they began to"opened up" in your electronics roughly speaking? By the way, it was you who introduced me to the Duelund CAST several years ago and I've always appreciated that. Now I'll discover what the Jupiter Cu foil has to offer with my SET.
Charles, |
Thanks Joe for your reply. |
Wow! 1, 000, 000%, that's saying something Bill. I'd had been happy with a true 10-15% improvement. Now expectations are really high.Look at what you've done.
Charles, |
Oh, now I see, you "really" got my hope up there for a minute.
Charles, |
I've ordered the Jupiter Cu foil capacitors. One pair of the 0.47uf were 176.00, the Duelund CAST in the same size are 380.00 per pair(The CAST have proven themselves in my system). I am curious to hear what these caps will do as coupling caps between the 1st and 2nd stages of my amplifier. If they positively impact/improve the sound of an already terrific sounding SET amplifier, I'll be impressed.
Charles, |
"Super Franks" now there's a concept!
Bill I always appreciate your input but you go much deeper into modifications than I care to. I just go for simple yet high bang for the buck mods and leave it there. Duelund caps in my speaker Xover and DAC worked out splendidly and I'm very happy. If the Jupiter Cu foil give me half of that in the Frankenstein that would be very satisfying(given the Franks high baseline performance). I don't believe changing the input coupling capacitor(amplifier) is as "significant" as the output coupling caps in the DAC or the speaker Xover tweeter caps. I could be making wrong assumptions.
Charles, |
I've had the Jupiter Cu foil capacitors in my amplifier for 6 hours and my "early" impression, this is a very good cap. Its insertion into the Frankenstein is less initially dramatic than with the CAST in my DAC and speakers at this same early stage. Is it the capacitor or is it due to different component/circuit location? One thing is clear however, it has a very natural character and the music flows realistically. The Jupiter reminds me more of the Duelund CAST than my experience with the V cap tin foil I've used. V caps are exceptional IMO but the CAST are just extraordinarily natural and right sounding, more emotion, harmonics and tone. The Jupiter seems cut from the same cloth. I'll have further impressions as they aquire
more playing time. I certainly understand that they need to burn in. I think
they could "potentially" equal the CAST or get very close. I'm not so sure
about toppling them however. Again, just quite early thoughts on an obviously fine capacitor.
Charles, |
Volleyguy,
There's no question that we all have different listening criteria priorities, that's why this is such an enjoyable individual pursuit. For certain some listeners will prefer a V cap or another good teflon capacitor (could depend on specific applications). For my taste, give me Duelund CAST or the Jupiter copper foil, they are so beautifully natural. If a component or part can't produce realistic tone and timbre, I'm not interested. The music has to have breath of life and emotion.
Charles, |
Bigkidz,
No I haven't any first hand experience with the V-cap Cu, only the tin foil teflon and their OIMP capacitors. The Cu version is highly regarded and I wonder how it compares to the Jupiter and Duelunds.
Charles, |
Well,
The Jupiter Cu foil caps are steadily improving (25 hours at this point). The sound isn't "night and day" improved compared with the stock Solens cap, Israel Blume got excellent sound using this cap in the Frankenstein (undeniable truth). But! The Jupiter is an unquestionable step further up in music reproduction, the amplifier's strengths get deliciously better. I can't speak for other amplifier topologies but this Jupiter capacitor is fabulous in my 300b SET, utterly natural and it lets the music just flow and engage you (and I was already deeply pulled in before these caps were installed).
Snopro (Joe) I must thank you for mentioning this on your system page. What a nice addition they are for our amplifiers.
Charles, |
Based on my listening experiences with Ocellia cables, Duelund CAST and now the Jupiter paper and wax products, there's something going on with the "natural" material choice philosophy. All three of these have increased the overall natural character of the sound in my system. Of course I have no science or hard proof to back me up. Their avoidance of Teflon, other synthetics and plastic has to be a major factor based purely on simply listening. Something very good is happening as a result of their materials choice. It can't be a coincidence these three companies produce strikingly similar audible results. I'd recommend these three products to anyone who prioritize organic character and true tone.
Charles, |
Volleyguy,
The Jupiter in my amplifier has been a successful upgrade, but this is relative to the stock Solens (so likely not a surprising result). What I don't know is what would the CAST have done in this position? Without doubt the Jupiter is a very good capacitor. Is equal to the CAST in direct comparison? Grannyring says it's better, you have very reasonable doubt. Such is the nature of High End audio, it's purely situational and subjective.
Charles, |
Salectric,
That is a well stated reply and I agree with your perspective . As Bill said I'd like to compare both approaches directly. I don't believe active Xovers inherently superior to a good quality simple passive one. |
Volley guy I accept the concept that there are many roads to good sound quality. I however agree with you the road I prefer is of one very high-quality amplifier driving a speaker with a simple crossover network that uses few but high quality parts. The Deulund CAST tweeter cap is such an asset in my speaker. Simple step with big results. |
The Jupiter has been a very fine addition in my amplifier. I do not believe it is any better than the CAST but it is certainly less costly. Both top level choices. The CAST provided me pure magic in my DAC and speakers, no question. Personally I'd take either over the V cap alternatives. At least for me the CAST is a stunning product. It would be a tight fit in the Frankenstein but would work I believe . |
Volleyguy,
As we both know, it's impossible to declare one capacitor the"best" for every listener in any/all systems. The responses here reflect that. All I can do is offer specific individual experiences and go with what I hear. I think we're similar in our admiration for the CAST. Theoretically if I had to limit myself to "only" one capacitor choice, give me the CAST. They bring the music alive and provide marvelous realism. No question the Jupiter is excellent in my very revealing/transparent SET amplifier. I just believe the CAST would be at lease as good if not better. Both are superb products overall. |
|
Jet,
Not surprised by your findings, I left a comment on your system page. |
Jet,
I believe the term "neutral" as used in audio conversation is meant to denote a lack of coloration.In reality every component and audio part has a signature or sonic character. Tubes,transistors, metals,class A, AB or D, there's no such thing as pure neutral. Everyone chooses a certain sound character they find the most agreeable and least compromised for their needs.To say something is natural/organic doesn't deny the presence of some innate signature(impossible to eliminate). Natural to me means more life like/real and less artificial in presentation. Jet based on your use of this term I'd guess your definition of natural is similar to mine. More life like and able to communicate much more of the emotion and soul of music when listening. Anyway Jet I definately get your point. |
Nyaudio98,
It's refreshing that a builder/designer is so encouraging and supportive of upgrading their product. Some builders downplay or don't believe their products can be improved very much. Better parts(not necessarily the most expensive) do "matter" and can improve sound quality, no question. In my system carefully improving part quality(which was already good) is well worth the additional cost.It wasn't a case of bad to good parts, but rather good to excellent parts.Good luck.
Charles, |
Volleyguy,
I can understand your conclusion regarding the Duelund CAST, it's a very special product my friend. |
Bill,
To be fair, Israel provided me with values upon email request. You're right in that he isn't an advocate of much modification to his products. I do believe he approves Vcap Cu foil as a input capacitor replacement for the Solens.
Charles, |
Rob,
It will be very interesting to see what capacitor he recommends for your amplifier. I use the Jupiter copper foils as input coupling capacitors in my Coincident Frankenstein amplifier. Although it wasn't a night and day change, it was certainly a worthwhile change. |
Rob,
Given Yazaaki's track record of recommendations I understand you following this path. I don't believe that there's a single "best" capacitor anyway, rather there are several very worthy choices with their own strengths. Sometimes the nitpicking can be a bit much.
Charles, |
Hi Rob,
I recognize that you are very impressed with Yazaki's talent, ears and thus his recommendations. Have you given serious consideration to perhaps purchasing his solid state Spec RAS integrated amplifier?
Charles, |
Rob,
Actually that description of listening preferences fits me very well. Those are exactly the things that get and hold my attention. Probably explains why some touted brands/components leave me cold and uninterested.
Charles, |
Hi Rob,
Reading that I'd say I'm cut from the same cloth. Musical attributes are more important to me than the sonic ones. I suspect being into acoustic jazz like they happened to be, we'd listen/hear that way by default. I believe Art Dudley falls into this category also. We seem to like(and dislike) the same type of audio components for the most part. Politically we're polar opposites LOL!
Charles, |
Rob,
The Mullard CV378 has the same positive effect in the Frankenstein as well. It made an excellent amplifier sound even better. This rectifier tube along with the Elrog 300b yields superlative tone. The Mullard is definitely worth its cost.
Charles, |
The Mullard CV378 outperforms the GE retifier in my listening comparison. The fat bottle CV378 is said to be the ultimate version but are very rare these days. Rob you should feel fortunate to own this tube.
Charles, |
Hi Rob,
I believe that when you start with a fundamentally solid foundation and good design, the amplifier responds to upgraded high quality parts/tweaks. Keep in mind that you have speakers that allow this amplifier to reach its potential sonic/musical performance.
Charles |
Hi Rob,
Looking forward to reading your listening impression of the Arizona capacitors in place of the teflon Solens. I suspect that they will sound wonderful and your Dynamo will sing even more.
Charles, |
Volleyguy,
In audio or music listening matters when it's head vs heart, I follow the heart. For me this is one area where emotion trumps cerebral considerations. Choose the capacitor that goes to your heart.
Charles, |
Hi John,
If the purpose of an audio system is to bring music into our homes for the sheer pleasure of listening, I don't see how one could reach any other conclusion. If you're unable to emotionally connect with your music what good is that system? I want all the color, beauty, texture and soul of music that I can possibly have. Rob via Jeff Day/Yazaki et al are on track with the Timbral Listening perspective.
Charles, |
The fact that the W.E. wire is competitive with the Duelund silver wire is highly impressive and commendable. If you find the W.E. more "-real" sounding then that is the one I would select ."Real" and "natural " -are my objectives when choosing any audio product.
Charles |
Hi,
Yes, 300b SET for the past six and a half years. I'm very happy with its sound and it will be my last amplifier. It brings the music to life which is all I want.
Charles, |
Volleyguy,
If you ever decide to go the DHT SET route be sure that it has a good quality output transformer and stout power supply. Those are the make or break variables for this type of amplifier. The last two areas to cut corners. I bet Grannyring (Bill) could build you a superb SET amplifier 😊
Charles, |
200 hours would be ideal although they sound very special by 100 hours for sure. I'm a hugh advocate of the Duelund CAST. After all these years of having them in my speaker's tweeter site and in my DAC (output coupling capacitors) I thoroughly appreciate their sonic impact in my system. They're a tremendous high quality product that I'd recommend wholeheartedly and without reservation. Worth every cent! Thanks Bill (Grannyring) for the recommendation years ago.
Charles |
@volleyguy1
Hi it’s nice to have you back and glad you are doing well. I have fond memories of this thread. I have had Duelund CAST capacitors in my Coincident Total Eclipse II speakers (Tweeter cap) and Yamamoto DAC for quite a number of years. Superb sound quality and fortunately no problems to report.
Charles
|
