Can we objectively rate speaker cables?

Hi Jenny,

As you said in one of your posts, the ideas in your original post were not exactly discussed as much as other things, so I thought I would take a stab at it and throw out some ideas for thought.

Here are my suggestions for some scales that, taken together, might help pin down the characteristics of an audio component. I beleive the scales could be used for any type of component including speakers, amplifiers, wires and cables ....etc. It could be argued that for a given component some of the scales wouldn't apply. That is a reasonable arguement, I made the scales up independent of focusing on a particular component.

Anyway here goes nothing.....

1. Low Frequency Extension – describes how low the frequency response goes, as well as how well the bass balances with the rest of the frequency response.
(Lacking / Anemic……………………………………………………Deep / Full)

2. Low Frequency Character – describes the accuracy or clarity of the low frequency reproduction.
(Boomy / Indistinct………………………………………………Tight / Defined)

3. High Frequency Extension – describes how high the high frequency response goes, as well as how well the treble balances with the rest of the frequency response.
(Muffled / Dull…………………………………………………Sparkling / Extended)

4. High Frequency Character – describes the accuracy or clarity of the high frequency reproduction.
(Harsh / Metallic……………………………………………………Open / Airy)

5. Instrument Timbre – describes how accurately the instrument’s sound or voice is reproduced. How real do the instruments sound?
(Indistinct / Muddled…………………………………………Accurate / Palpable)

6. Timing – describes how clearly all elements of the music are kept in time.
(Dead / Unemotional……………………………………Toe Tapping / Engaging)

7. Ambience Reproduction – describes how clearly the performance venue sound cues are reproduced (reverberation, echo, background noise etc.)
(Flat / One Dimensional………………………………………3D / You Are There)

8. Transient Response – describes how well explosive / transient elements are presented (such as snare drum hits).
(Slow / Muted / Rounded………………………………………Fast / Pop / Snap)

9. Sound Stage Width – describes the over all perception of the width of the sound stage.
(Narrow / Compressed…………………………………………Wide / Expansive)

10. Sound Stage Depth - describes the over all perception of the depth of the sound stage.
(Flat / One Dimensional………………………3D / Walk Around The Instruments)

11. Sound Stage Height - describes the over all perception of the height of the sound stage.
(Single Line / Limited…………………………………Front Row / Bigger Than Life)

12. Resolution – describes how well minute sounds and details are reproduced, especially when they occur at the same time as louder sounds.
(Veiled / Muddy…………………………………………………Detailed / Precise)

From the other discussion that has gone on before, it would be fair to say that any rating will have to be a realitivistic one, specifically relative to the rest of the system the given component is in. However, as was suggested once before, hopefully some common patterns would arrise that helps define certain products.

At the very least it would be nice to have a common ground, common understanding that could be provided by a such a rating system.

ROVA

Hi Jenny,

I like your idea, but I think someone will have to put a lot of discriptive text in place to make everything clear.

For example what does "warm" mean? Does everyone view that the same way?

Another example of how confusing subjective observations can get; doesn't "slow" also relate to "warm" and doesn't "fast" also get somewhat into the same space as "detailed"?

If someone can give some very detailed and precise definitions to the end points of the scales then perhaps this will work. I certainly agree that it would be nice to have some sort of scale to allow one person to review a cable and have everyone else know where that fits in with other cables.

ROVA

06-18-09: Sidssp
No, you cannot rate speaker cable this way. Speaker cable has no "sound" of its own. A speaker cable can "sound" warm and slow in one system but detailed and open in another. Amp, speaker cable, and speaker must be viewed as a whole.

Hmmmm....gets complicated doesn't it?

OK, no wire or cable has a sound of its own, but because it is an imperfect transmitter of signals, a wire or cable can change the sound of a system. So, you are correct that the system is important to the discussion. This also means that the change for one system will not be exactly the same for another system. However, all designers of cables should be trying to eliminate the imperfections of the transmission medium to give the best reproducted sound. From this perspective cables that get closer to this ideal goal should have similar characteristics and hence be less sensitive to system parameters. We should be able to identify and quantify these characteristics.

However, I suspect part of the problem with this line of ththougt is the flaws in other parts of the system. To explain, I beleive many owners may be using one component of a system (cables for example) to compensate for flaws in other components in the system. Perhaps your speakers have a tendancy to sound a little "hot" so when you use speaker cable "X" the sound is somewhat tamed and much more neutral. In fact you could be using a small flaw of the speaker cable as a filter in your system. For someone else this flaw in the speaker cable shows up as a terrible hindrance to the overall sound. Hence different opinions for same cable. I don't know how we can get away from this problem until will learn how to properly "measure" all the important characteristics of a component (not simple to do at all).

I will agree that because the speaker side of the system is fairly low in impedance and the wire characteristics and flaws likely have much less impact because of this. However, for interconnects the wire flaws and characteristics play a much bigger role due to the higher impedances involved.

ROVA

06-24-09: Dave_b
Rova and Jadem6, despite my love of Spongebob and a good laugh once in a while (even a not so good laugh), my experience with cabling has been vast and with a ton of varying gear. That said, I hesitate to pontificate because I know the fallacy of trying to pin down a moving target. The list of attributes you are listing heavily overlap the domains of the ancillary equipment /speakers involved, let alone the room/environment and accessories.

Absolutely, all parts of the system affect the end sound; some to a greater degree than another. If you read my post closely I readily addmitted the attributes I chose were not cable specific but generic. Do other components have a greater influence than cables, sure.

The adult thing to do is.....one more time.....call Robert Stein at the Cable Company and ask for advice, then try as many cables as you want before you then buy what works for YOU!! No variables, no hyperbole, no bad jokes, nothing but real cables in your system with your ears. End of story =:- )

Really? So the only opinion that counts is Robert Stein's? {No disrespect to Mr. Stein who I don't know personally.) I do agree that the only opinion that really counts is your own, after hearing the cable in your own system. However, if I follow your reasoning then we could just eliminate the discussion forums altogether. After all there is no point discussing cables as there can be no common point of reference. The discussion would be totally pointless so just get cables from Robert Stein and don't bother talking about it.

Please...!

I'm not naive enough to think we can absolutely pin down any component, never mind cables, using a subjective system regardless of how precise we make the words. However, I can see the benefits of hobbyists sharing their experiences with each other. I was only proposing we come up with some common languages and / or common scales with which we have these discussions. I find that when many users have positive things to say about a component then there is probably something good up with that component. If most of those users mention a common characteristic then there's a pretty good chance that I would find the same thing in my system (certainly not a guarantee though).

Is there a problem with sharing our experiences with each other?

Anyway, for my choice I prefer Zero-va speaker cables and Zero-va interconnects. Why? Because I designed them and I built them and they work fantastic. 'nough said!

ROVA

Dave_b stated.
The product placement part of your post was probably not the best way to end your sincere counterpoints...it kinda blows your 'Cred a little? Maybe not...I'll check out your stuff for fun if I can assuming you market them on the web.

Sorry but you can't buy them. Actually, I don't sell them at all. I have released the designs as DIY projects for those who might be interested. (I hope being DIY doesn't automatically lower their value in some peoples eyes. Those who don't mind picking up some hand tools should try them. I think they will be pleasantly surprised. I have several people who have completed the projects and are very pleased with the results. Some are even lamenting that they didn't have these before they spent lots of dollars on commercial cables.}

If you are interested you can check out the projects at the following links:

Zero-va Interconnects
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10495
Zero-va Speaker cables
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10788

Sorry if it sounded like a plug, it was more like sticking my nose in the air :)

ROVA

06-25-09: Gregm wrote
Thanks for the refs... However, why don;t you give a brief approximation of what yr system sounds like with these wires? It would be interesting.

Gregm, I did describe the sound of my system with the new cables in the threads I linked. Or do you mean something else?

ROVA