Can the Harbeth 40.1's boggie ?????


I am not looking for ear shattering volume - but everything I have read ( and no, where I live I cannot listen to them )but I am considering them. But, can they play some rock and roll and get out of their own way ???? Reviewers and owners have noted that they sound great at low volume levels - and they have an '' organic natural sound '' - that's great but can they play Lynard Skynard, some Allman Brothers and god forbid some Grateful Dead that well - like they advertise -sounds like real music ??? I also listen to Eva Cassidy, The Eagles, Jackson Browne, Pat Methany, JJ Cale and most of all The Beatles ....and why do see so many of them for sale ??? Ummmmm.....
garebear

Showing 6 responses by ryder

Again, Erikminer made some valid observations. Although the Harbeth will not rock like some other speakers, Classe + Purist + "Harbeth" + Overdamped room can be a recipe for disaster if one seeks thrill and excitement. If using ASC absorption panels on 1st reflection points or anywhere else, may I suggest taking them out(and replace them with diffusion if you have some). In my room I always prefer diffusion than absorption as the latter kills life and dynamics in music especially with the Harbeth.

Something to think about to alleviate the current situation.
It's a hit and miss thing when it comes to choosing the right speakers based on reviews and advice on the forums. Sorry to hear that the 40.1's did not work out for you. One point to note is the Classe are smooth amps. I don't know about the Delta series but having owned the CAP-100 and listened to the Classe separates I have a general idea of how Classe sounds like. When matched with the equally warm and smooth Harbeth it can be too much of a good thing -smooth, flat, uninvolving and lacking in dynamics. An amp change will improve things, and the real question is whether the degree of improvement is significant enough to transform the whole presentation of the 40.1s, or the difference is subtle at best. That only the listener can answer for himself.

If you want the Harbeths to rock and boogie, Naim amps will provide that edge, and I have tried half a dozen amps. If the 40.1's still fail to rock and boogie with the Naims then the Harbeths are not the speaker for you and remain as a pregnant girlfriend.

A friend of mine, a 40.1 owner who tried a plethora of amps on the speakers(Leben CS600, LFD LEIII, Pathos Logos, Rega Elicit, Sansui, Hungarian-made tube amp and a couple more) also had the same predicament. He couldn't enjoy his music from the 40.1's with these amps as music lacked sparkle and life. He now owns the Naim 32.5 with Avondale boards and 135 amps and is now keeping the speakers. Having said that there also few Harbeth users who changed to other speakers despite using Naim amps on them.

If you want to salvage the 40.1s you might want to consider the Naims. Judging from your response above I think it is a safer bet that you sell them. The 40.1's will not sound like your previous Avalon Eclipse even when driven by the Naim.

Shadorne made a good point. The Compact 7ES3 may be the most successful speaker in the Harbeth line that is quite versatile across a wide genre of music.
I guess it depends on the sound that you want. Missioncoonery made a good point on vintage speakers. FWIW my friend who owns the 40.1 actually has another pair of Altec Lansing Valencia in a 2nd system. He got the Altecs so that he can have the best of both worlds. The Altecs gave him the raw, forward and live sound but severely lacked the detail and refinement of the Harbeths. The Altecs were also brighter in comparison and tonality were not as accurate as the Harbeth. The Harbeths gave him the smooth, composed and refined sound but lacked the big and life like presentation of the Altecs. One cannot have everything in one package that does it all.

From what I gather the Cremona M's and older Sonus Faber designs do not sound alike. The lush, warm and romantic sound of the older Cremona has been replaced by a leaner, forward and more dynamic sound of the Cremona M's. I wager the Cremona M's will certainly have the ability to boogie a whole lot better than the older SF models. I've owned and listened to some older Sonus Fabers and they are thick-sounding and rolled-off in the highs.
Of course, everything about Harbeth must sound good on the Harbeth forum. There is no room for negative thoughts or criticism as they practice active moderation.

As much as I love the Harbeth sound, let's admit it. They do not have the most extended highs and some of the detail in the high frequencies are smoothed out. This largely contributed to the low listening fatigue of Harbeth speakers but took away some of the edge and excitement. It largely depends on the genre of music one is listening to.

The lossy thin-walled cabinet of the Harbeth is designed to resonate along with the music whilst most speaker manufacturers try to make their speakers as inert as possible to minimize unwanted cabinet resonance. Cabinet vibrations are some sort of a coloration but Harbeth promote this philosophy which is the archetype of the BBC heritage.

As for fast vs slow. It is interesting some may express the inappropriate use of these terms in describing sound or speakers on the Harbeth forum since in their mind they do not mean anything. Again, when someone states that the speaker(or music) is fast or slow, it will relate to the ability of the speaker or system to highlight or reproduce the transient attack and dynamic swings in music. I believe most criticism on Harbeth is they fall short in rock or dynamic music, sounding slow when compared to dynamic speakers due to their inherent design characteristics. The bass will not be as quick, tight or agile with the cabinet vibrations. For music with lots of thumping bass lines, the Harbeth may exhibit some bass boom as the bass plods along with the music, due to resonance build-up within the cabinet. Coupled with the smoothed out treble, this may have given the impression that the Harbeths sound slow or can't boogie to some people.

The 40.1s are IMO the most polite speaker in the Harbeth line, followed by the SHL5. The C7ES3s are the most dynamic(in other words, quickest and has the best speed) owing much to the smaller box apart from the 2nd generation Radial driver, hence the highest boogie factor.
The tragedy of Macbeth...oops, that should spell Harbeth.

For those who have not listened to any Harbeth, I would recommend trying the C7ES3 before jumping to the big 40.1s. Depending on the type of music that is played, the smaller models (P3ESR, C7ES3 & SHL5) are somewhat more open, dynamic and less sluggish than the 40.1s owing much to the smaller cabinet and the absence of the additional 12" bass driver in the 40.1s. Of course they don't go down low in the bass frequencies but communicate the message in music in a more convincing manner -IMHO of course.

It can also be due to the room as the 40.1s are more difficult to work with. Nevertheless, in the context of this thread I guess the 40.1s are just not for Garebear.