Can it get better?


Seeking the advice of folks who have experienced significant gains when moving from an integrated amp to separate pre and power. I realize there are several threads on the topic but specifically, I’d be concerned about a lateral move in terms of sound quality while dishing out close to 2x what I purchased my integrated for. For example, my system consists of a Pass Labs Int-25 driving Harbeth Shl5+ 40th anniversaries. It’s a combination that gives coherent and smooth sound yet is quite resolving. 
Why change? For one, I would like to experiment with different power for the Harbeths and am intrigued by some of the class d options out there. The Pass was about 5k and some of the pre and power combinations I’m considering would push the cost north of 10k. There are a number of well designed preamps out there in the 5k range that I could see serving me for many years. Assuming good synergy with the power amp, is there good reason to believe that separates would sound significantly better than the little Pass which has system synergy built in? In what way? Or would I have to venture into a higher tier in terms of cost?

thanks for the advice

 Brian

128x128voodoochillin

Showing 3 responses by ghdprentice

@voodoochillin

 

Interesting, the words you use. See if you are able to listen to a Audio Research VSi75. It is an integrated, but tubed. It offers warm midrange bloom, with great imaging and soundstaging.

I recently had a audio buddy over that commented my system had the best imaging he had heard… I hadn’t even thought of it… but it is outstanding… the natural… musical sound of ARC is incredible. For the time I was an audiophile Padawan I had heard ARC and been really impressed with their sound attributes. But out of my price range. However, today for $10K you can get a large chunk of the sound in an integrated.

My history includes living with Pass preamps / amps for 20 years / 35 years. The conversion from Pass to Audio Research has been one of the most transformative things that has happened to me. Pursuing high end audio all my life… having Audio Research Phonostages for 35 years… and preamps for 15, and now all Audio Research makes me realize I should have made this conversation earlier.

Today you can get a good slice of high detail, imaging, midrange bloom, warm organic sound from the VSi 75. When I drop by my audio dealer I alway listen to it. My system is over 10x in cost, so sounds better.. but for it’s price, it is amazing… to me.

The order with increased sound quality is integrated, single box components and finally two box components (separating the power supply from main components… or mono block amplifiers).

 

I can attest to increasing sound quality with each step. In one instance I owned a $8K Sim Moon DAC / CD player for several years and then purchased the matching add on $8K power supply. The sound character did not change… but wow… the background noice just dropped greatly, opened up the sound stage and revealed many more details. Big difference. This was worth it for me… for some I am sure it would not be.

 

I currently own a a Audio Research REF 160s amplifier. For fun I had my dealer drop off the Ref 160m .. exact same amp…. But in monoblocks…. two halves split. Does it sound better… yes. Night and day, no. Quieter more dynamic. Worth the extra $12K… depends on your financial condition. If mine improves, I’ll probably upgrade.

I can go on… the best sound comes from real assaults at the state of the art… isolation and separate function.

While I own an integrated and many separates, my comments come from fifty years of pursuing high end audio and owning many pieces of Pass equipment.

Your concern is well founded. Your integrated has the advantage of single design, savings in costs by one case. Long ago integrates we’re not very good. Now they are. So, it would be easy for the switch to be largely lateral. However this is treating preamps and amps as a commodity… all are exactly the same just better with cost… this is not true. The outcome will completely depends on exactly what you buy and how big the change in character there is with the new equipment. I would say that careful selection you can get very significantly improved sound… but you must choose wisely.

I was surprised to see your amp does not have preamp outputs. The traditional way to upgrade… power amp only. I am disappointed in Pass not to have provided preamp outputs.

A couple thoughts.

Long termed significant improvements will require separates… if you want to craft and customize the sound… this is the path forward.

Honestly this is where a dealer can be invaluable. At some point not trying to save a few bucks off of audio equipment by buying on-line becomes very well worth it. Also, if you are going to $10K (I would recommend) a dealer. A good one will figure out what changes you would like to hear, recommend possible choices, let you test the equipment at home and give you a trade in on your Pass integrated. Yes, of course he would most likely recommend what he sells… so research first to see what he sells… maybe target two or three places. Worth a long trip if you are in the sticks. Establish relationship with the owner in advance and make an appointment.