Can I expect to pay full retail for a new system?

In the old days, a full complete system, came with appropriate cables gratis.

I think it's up to you and the dealer in question. A discount is a realistic possibility, and I think a realistic expectation, with the type of money you're spending.

When I was a newbee to the high end, I had the impression that it was not cool to try to barter. After all, these were "high end", nose in the air, lots of attitude types. They didn't barter like the unwashed mass market hucksters. They were above that. Besides, you were expected to pay more, that's what paid for the "service" you got from them.

Fortunately in those days, I couldn't afford to buy any high end gear anyway. How some of those dealers treated me when they found out that I coudn't buy at that instant is another thread.

After a while, I discovered that some dealers didn't have high end attitudes and were actually nice, helpful people. As long as you didn't waste their time when there were paying customers in the store, they were willing to invest some time in you knowing that you might come back in the future when you were ready to buy. It's called relationship building. I appreciated that. There are some people whose products I would gladly pay a little more for in return for what they've provided me in service and in education. And if you were close to a purchase, expecially if it involved multiple items, then they often initiated the suggestion of a discount, especially if it was a package deal.

So I think that the dealer is a critical variable. Some will offer a discount. Some won't. Find a dealer you like and whose advice you trust. Get to know them and let them get to know you. And you will find that deals will emerge.

My experience with gear in the 5K - 10K range is that 10 - 15% is automatic and you can probably get more. If you are lucky or have a friend you might get 30%.

There's a truly snooty "high-end" dealer near me (in waltham, MA) who will not discount anything, ever, even by 1 cent (so the only thing I ever bought there was a $10 bottle of record cleaning fluid). The list price policy might not have totally turned me off, but that combined with all the "attitude" sure did.

If you're on audiogon a lot, you can buy current-model, slightly used gear all the time at 50-60-70% of new. And a lot of the sellers on audiogon are way nicer than some of the "high-end" dealers.

There are some excellent dealers, too of course. But if they try to intimidate you if you ask for a reasonable discount, personally, I'd go elsewhere.....

just my 2 cents

first of all, if you're new to this hobby, don't spend so much period...secondly, try to purchase used- in near mint condition.