2. amps-preamps
  3. 1120761757

Can HI FI components really make music?

Hello everyone. I am posting this question possibly a bit early but I am getting frustrated and am about to throw in the towel, sell everything and buy a Bose wave radio and call it good. My question is does a good HI FI system ever really sound like live music? At this point I think not. I have been in this hobby for about 7 years and just can't seem to get there. Even the system at the local "hi end" dealer does not come close to live music. My system has evolved over the years to the following:

Wadia 861 CD
VTL MB 125 mono blocks
Supratek Chennin Pre
(2) Vandy 2WQ subs
Vandy 3A Sig
Cardas Golden Cross inter con
Kimber Bifocal XL spk cable
Vandy model 5 Xover

All this gear is in a 13x35x8 room. Although the sound is quite good. Better than most any other system Ive heard it still has a long way to go. In all fairness the 3As are not completely broken in but I dont think they will improve to the extent I want them to over the course of the next 30 hrs. My dealers solution is that I should get rid of the Supratek and replace with a VTL 5.5. I dont think so. Been there done that. Although the VTL is decent it cant compete with the Supra.

At this point I think maybe the VTL 125s are just not sophisticated or powerful enough to give me the sound Im looking for. I think they are the weak link along with cabling. I stated earlyer that the dealers system doesnt do it for me either and I think that may be due to the fact that their biggest amp is 185 wpc. Im thinking maybe a sophisticated amp with say 400 wpc might get me there with the 3As. I dont know... but I am not willing to spend 100K to what I want nor could I afford to.

For those of you that are still with me any and all input welcome. I am not one of those thin skinned audiophiles that cries like a baby when someone has the audacity to insult their precious gear. So fire away.

Thanks
braro

Showing 3 responses by newbee

newbee
4,751 posts
 
I don't know what 'sound you are looking for' but if you're looking for live, forget it. You will never even come close, dispite all of the hype! But, having said that you can still put together a fine system which will allow you to come close to replicating the information on the disc you are playing.

You are talking about your equipment - frankly you aught to be getting some fairly fine sound with your present stuff, even if its not as loud as you would like or would be available with a more powerful amp, or even if your speakers are not the last word in detail or transparency. All of this leads me to ask what you have done to maximize speaker and listening position set up and room acoustics?

But if you really want 'live' music in your room, forget it and get the Boze - you'll lead a less stressful life and live longer. :-)
newbee
4,751 posts
 
"Once you know where the problem areas are frequency wise, how do you deal with them?"

Depends on the frequency. Moving the speakers and listening position about can cure a lot of bass problems, but not all (for those you might need a parametric equalizer). Toe-in can cause/cure a lot of sidewall reflection problems (mids and highs). Carpets can cure a lot of floor reflection problems (mids and highs) and ceilings can cause problems as well but are more difficult to treat because of WAF.

Get your meter back out and create a base line measurement on your system as set up and then start moving things about again and see what physical changes affect the base line measurements (chart it all, don't think you will remember 2hrs later). Pick and focus on one frequency abberation at a time (I usually start with the bass). If you need help after you have flattened it as best you can, give a very exact description/measurement of your room, furnishings, speaker and listening position. I'm sure many here will be able to give you specific recommendations.

You mentioned that your speakers measured differently. Is this the room or the speakers? Have you reversed the actual speakers to see? Have you just reversed the channels to see if its the electronics?

FWIW, your speakers are just fine, and in many ways ideal but they do have limitations. If you accept their limitations you will lose a lot of angst about not having a "perfect sound" system. Just don't spend a lot of money trying to get them to do something they can't! Be happy and listen to all that great music! :-)
newbee
4,751 posts
 
Bravo, I'm not sure how to interpert your measurements. Are you saying that (1) the right channel at 100 hz is +6db over a 1K tone measured on the R speaker or a 1K tone measured on both speakers, or (2) 6db over the L speaker output?

One thing to consider in making measurments/adjustments in the mid-lower bass response is that much (but by no means all) of the info there is mono. Rather than focusing on the difference between each speakers output below 200 hz I would look at the summed output of both speakers. Also, consider that most of the balance issues are more apparent from tones in the mid range and highs, so while your might have an imbalance in the lows (between speakers)if the summed output is balanced with the upper frequencies you might never hear it.

In general the corresponding node and null at 100 and 150 hz suggests to me a problem which might be curable by altering the speakers or listening position, however if this ratio is close to the same no matter where you place your speakers and/or chair it is a room problem. You would want to fix this either by using appropriate bass traps or a good parametric equalizer. A 12 db swing is going to be very audible. BTW this could be a result of your rooms construction.

That 12db rise at 15kz is not likely to be related to your room - it could be the equipment used to make your tests or it could be a problem with your electronics or speaker. You could easily check this out by using a process of elimination in switching electronics and speakers one piece at a time.

What are the other measurements between 1k and 15k for the right speaker and for the left speaker? IMHO, your balance problem is more likely because of disparate speaker response, or untreated reflection points, some where between 500hz and 5000hz than anywhere else.
More to discover