Can Anyone Please Walk Me Through This?

Thanks for the excellent posts so far. As much as I would like tubes and a turntable in my car, I think hard drived based music is here to stay for a while.

Sidssp, interesting that you were comfortable with MP-3 at 320kbs. Perhaps I was not using that standard but I thought I was using the highest quality settings on the LAME compression software, after ripping CDs with EAC.

(Maybe that is out of date now, but was supposedly the hot thing not long ago.)

The surprise for me was installing a Nakamich CD-400 in my car and there was a DRAMATIC difference between WAV files and my MP-3 files when played from my Ipod through the car stereo.

The MP-3 files had vague wandering image, a harder, more fatiguing sound quality, and less dynamic range ie compressed.

I have other Agon friends that say the best MP-3 is very good now, but that is why I was obsessed with the lossless files, even at the expense of disc space.

Sidssp

I am sure the 320 kbs is much better and probably pretty good.

I do find it interesting, however, in a forum where we split hairs between CD transports and cables, that the WAV (bit for bit) files would be indistinguishable from the compressed files on Sennheiser 650's which I dont own but understand are very revealing, more or less reference quality headphones.

Perhaps this is because the playback is ultimately still limited by the iPods internal amp and D/A converter?

Sorry to continue to be so stubborn on this subject, but it still seems to me that a lossless WAV file would be the best digital archive.

Then, if I could ever figure out how to get those bits from the computer, or the iPod, into a serious D/A, an external headphone amp, and my Etymotics ER-4's with custom silicon earpieces.......

Onhwy61

The Nakamichi CD400 has RCA inputs on the BACK, not the front, but the front panel selects the source radio, CD, or aux.

A RCA to mini jack cable is permanently installed and hidden under the center console, so the Ipod can be easily plugged in and kept inside the locking center compartment.

If you are using the cassette style or FM transmitter with your Ipod, I would agree that none of these differences should be meaningful.

But hard wired to the system, I was amazed by the differences -- even with the top down.

Thanks for your comments. No offense was taken.

OK - maybe we can simplify this for everyone:

1) MP3 algorithims have improved dramatically, but they are still compressed, digital files and let's face it: they ain't high end.

Their limitations and artifacts may be obscured by the signal chain, or be less relevant with certain types of music or lesser quality recordings, but otherwise should be audible to any self respecting audiophile -- even on a high end car stereo which is what led me to start this thread.

2) WAV files are probably a better audiophile solution, but you cannot easily "tag" them with track information. This, unfortunately, defeats one of the chief purposes of computer based audio -- convenience.

In addition, there are buffer issues when using WAV files which will rapidly drain battery life on portable devices and also cause audible skips in your music. Not to mention of course, that they take up massive amounts of hard drive space, which dramatically limits the amount of music one can store on their hard drive based device.

So in the end, portable devices including the iPod dont really "support" WAV files, any more than an all wheel drive Porsche 911 Carrera 4 "supports" driving on unpaved surfaces. OK, you can sort of drive off road, but not with the results that you wanted or were expecting.

3) Until this is all improved, Apple's proprietary "lossless" format may be the best solution, as it takes up less storage space than a WAV file and also can be easily "tagged" with track info, just like MP3 files.

It is unclear, however, how good Apple's format really sounds. And since it only works with Ipods, this is difficult to test.

It is likely,however, that this, too, may not be up to the high end standards of this forum for uncompromised playback through the best associated gear.

Do we all agree?

I dont think I am as rigid as the tone of my post might have suggested. I am glad, however, that this has inspired a lively discussion and thank you everyone for your thoughts.

I am not trying to brag about my golden ears, and perhaps I was listening to 128 MP3s (which many of you have suggested are far inferior) during my test which actually was in my car.

To further shock and astound you, you would see from the "what car do you drive thread" that the car is a Porsche Boxster S with a stainless racing exhaust. Somehow -- even with the roof down -- a harder and more fatiguing quality was apparent on the MP3s vs the WAV files.

The system consists of a Nakamich CD-400 using low level outputs to an a/d/s amp, with a/d/s woofers in the door panels, addl soundproofing, and mediocre upward firing mid/tweeters in the dash. The iPod connects through a cable -- not cryogenically treated -- as the Nak has an aux input switch on the front panel.

Obviously, I am not trying to debate resolution, transparency or inner detail most of which will be lost in a car environment, just the sensation of listener's fatigue.

I dont necessarily expect the Ipod to be a high end device, and I am happy to listen to music casually on things that are not "high end".

But why not pursue the best when experimenting with a new format?