Can a better power cable make a difference if NOT plugged directly into an outlet?


I am curious about improving my sound with power cable upgrades.

At present, I'm using a setup which Almarg (RIP) used and which he recommended to me:

Wall outlet (hospital plug)
Audience Adept Response-ar2p power conditioner
Wiremold strip w/ Shunyata defender

I use Pangea AC 9 SE and AC14 SE cords, at present.

This setup has been quiet and hum free. 

Still I'm curious about whether better power cables might make some improvements, here or there.

The question is, whether any improvements a power cable could bring would be blunted or nullified by the setup I'm presently using.

Any thoughts?

Those who say power cables never matter, please go watch a cute cat video instead of posting here, please.



 

128x128hilde45

Showing 13 responses by hilde45

@lalitk Thanks for your comment. I am not averse to trying better cords, and if I can hear it with the Audience, then it may be even more apparent when I'm in my new space. That space has 5 dedicated lines and a dedicated sub-panel. 

Thanks for the comments so far.

@noromance Your proposal is sound, as long as there is a reason to try a cord without a conditioner. Right now, the Audience unit is also protecting the gear, and given that our power went on and off 5x the other night (weird storm), I'm loathe to plug anything into the wall that's not protected. That said, I will be moving into another room next year which has a whole house surge protector installed, on a dedicate line.

You all see the trouble, I assume -- if there is enough between the wall and the audio gear (conditioner, power strip, etc.) there may be no way for the subtleties of a powercord change to be heard. It would be like changing a subtle flavor in an already powerful stew.

This is why the "daisy chain" experiment mentioned above is not clearly worth the time for me.

@erik_squires Thanks -- that makes a lot of sense. Saving money by attacking the problem with the greatest impact (if it works) breaks the stranglehold of marketing pseudo-scientific doublespeak.

Thanks for some of the replies. 

I'm curious about trying the direct into the wall VS. via conditioner in addition to trying some power cords, in a careful, sequential fashion as described. I appreciate the factor Erik mentioned about interference as a key factor.

I have heard power cords make a difference -- in a store. I do not know what difference it would (or could) make in my system.

Remaining skeptical until proven otherwise is my M.O. for this hobby, because there are many other places to make improvements. So, if I don't hear something, I will send things back. 

 

Great advice, here. Summing up:

I will ask Audience their opinions about cords.

I will not try a slightly better cord. I will step up significantly to try something much better.

I will try both via the conditioner and straight to the wall.

I will try things one at a time, with different components, to see where the greatest differences lie.

I will not hesitate to call "no difference" if the difference is not forcefully present.

I understand better that "noise" is not always the overt, obvious kind. This is about the differences made to the background, which may already be fairly quiet but when it's made even quieter, the audible sounds will improve as a result.

Additional notes:

My wall outlets are "Porter Ports." They're supposed to be pretty good.

My Audience plugs directly into the wall. There is no place to insert a cord, there. The wiremold strip plugs into the audience and then serves everything.

So, there may already be something to improve, there.

In my new room, I hope to plug things in, thus:

Dedicated outlet #1 — monoblock amps (left and right)
Dedicated outlet #2 — source components (streamer and DAC and CD transport)
Dedicated outlets #3 — subwoofers 1, 2, 3

@thyname It's a relatively inexpensive wireMOLD strip, not wireworld.

Almarg was an electrical engineer and a Ph.D. and thought this was enough for his system -- given his components, power in his area, etc. 

Still, worth trying.

Continued thanks to others for weigh in's and affirmations of my planned process.

John from Audience is recommending the F3 power cord to start with. It's about the same price as the Pangea. Perhaps it's too much of a lateral move. Hmmm. Into the brambles I go!

 

@thyname Yes, I did. I’m sure he’s considering that I want to begin in a way that does not break the bank and I appreciate him being sensitive to the "sticker shock" some may experience with this aspect of a system. That said, I can imagine that if an F3 was not significantly better than my Pangea, there’d be little which I would hear that would make me wish to keep it.

Experimenting is the only way forward, but it needs to be an experiment that, as some have said here, tries something significantly better or it won’t be worth it. Is the F3 significantly better than the Pangea SE9 Mk II, which uses Cardas copper?

That’s why I said "hmm."

@audphile1 You skip over the $180 cable and go for the $1500 cable. I want to party with you -- no stops on this train. This is the Express! ;-)

@audphile1 

All jokes aside, going from one sub-$200 cable to another will get you very little ROI if any at all.

Thanks. That's what I figured, and why I felt that the nice advice I got from Audience directly was really just a way to get me into their products but not really likely to change much about what I was hearing. I'm looking at used prices for the model you mentioned, and it's probably something I could do.

Of course, if I aim to put these on the mono blocks, the cost doubles, if I can find two of them.

Perhaps just get one and either try it on my solid state stereo amp? Or on an upstream component, such as the DAC?

 

@lemonhaze I don’t have DIY skills but I know someone who does. Thank you for the link!

I will admit, though, that the first paragraph really raised some suspicions:

"Once I’ve realized how a single cable could make or break a HiFi system – I went down the rabbit hole. It made the difference between enjoying a system – and being annoyed with it."

Clearly, this claim must be hyperbole -- and in the first paragraph. I will suspend judgment as best I can, but you can appreciate how implausible it is.

Soon after, we see this claim:

"At this point, I’m sure we could all agree that different power cords sound different. Even among generic cords."

The author is "sure" of this as a general fact, not considering the dozens of variables involved? And not only that, this surety applies, too, to generic cords? Will still suspend judgment -- largely out of my respect for your posts, Lemonhaze, but this author is straining already strained credulity and we’re still just at the beginning of the article.

I'll just note that if there is a "fact" we can count on, it's that anyone who has gone down a "rabbit hole" investigating 1000 power cords will, given that time and money investment, have a severe case of cognitive dissonance if not outright regret if they do not come out of the experience with concrete and significant conclusions. We see this with all kinds of other belief systems. It's the "sunk costs" fallacy. It takes courage to admit that one has gone down a rabbit hole that was really just a waste of time. It's embarrassing to oneself and to admit to others. But sometimes, the truth hurts. That pain makes perhaps the crucial difference between science and confirmation bias.

Ok, needed to get that off my chest. Again -- just so I do not commit the fallacy of "lack of charity" I am suspending judgment and going back to the article.

 

@lemonhaze Thanks for reaffirming. I'll take a look. When I see hyperbole or exaggeration, my hackles are raised so your additional credence is helpful.

@recklesskelly Yes, "try it out" is good advice. It does not prevent confirmation bias, of course.

The way I see it, if you spend a bunch on cables it HAS to sound better right?

That's effectively claiming that everyone is subject to the fallacy of sunk costs. I think that's false.

Here's what I take as "true enough" on this issue:

Becoming an "experienced" audiophile requires

  • accepting the idea that experiments do not have predetermined outcomes
  • rejecting the idea that price is sufficient to make something sound good
  • accepting the idea that experiments lead to mistakes from time to time and waste money
  • accepting the idea that an experiment can yield no outcome or a worse outcome
  • accepting the idea that one's system -- or one's system setup or power -- will be obstacles to an experiment capable of yielding audible results

So, yes -- one has to "try and see" but if one does not grasp the basic principles above, then one is actually just guessing. Perhaps that's the hardest pill to swallow around here -- that people claim to "try things out" to avoid wasting their money, but they do such a terrible job at controlling the variables that in order to save face (with themselves!) they find themselves pretending (to themselves and then to others, which just helps with the self delusion) that they hear something when they don't. An experienced audiophile would try to steer around that whole mess and just take their lumps.