Cables 101, new student, first question


I have a simple question if I can get it worded correctly. For simplicity, let's say my system has four interconnects in a "stream," all from the same manufacturer, some from the top of the line and some from the bottom. Example: Wireworld's Eclipse 8 line, four different versions, the least expensive starting at $325 and the most expensive starting at $1700. In general, will the system's sound be defined by the weakest (cable) link in the chain, in which case all the more expensive cables are a waste of money? Or will a mix of cables that includes some really high-end ones sound better than a consistent run of the cheaper stuff? 

To put this a different way, if I'm buying a couple new interconnects (again, for simplicity's sake from the same maker), might buying better ones improve the sound or will I not hear a difference until I've replaced them all? (Here's the stream analogy: if I put a dam upstream, the flow in the entire river will be reduced.)  


northman

Showing 4 responses by millercarbon

I was trying to ask, simply, whether cables in a system are victim to the weakest link in the cable chain. I’m interested in how systems work, abstractly, and I’m also interested in practical applications. That is, I’m interested in "the big picture"

The big picture, as it says on my system page, is that everything matters. The "weakest link" concept applies only to the extent it might guide you towards doing things that get the most improvement for your time and money. But every single little thing you can think of anywhere you can think of it, each one is only about as important as any other.

Take AC wire, for example. There’s a treatment Total Contact that when applied to the outside of a wire greatly improves sound quality. You might think it will work best inside a component, or inside the room. But I have crawled under the house and put this stuff on wires going all the way back to the breaker panel. It comes in a 1.5ml syringe. I know how much went where. The first 5 feet from the panel makes just the same improvement as the last 5 feet in the room.

The beauty of this is when you find something like this that is very cost-effective then instead of having to buy ever more and more expensive components you can greatly improve what you already have and get there for a lot less. This is embraced as great news by people like me and Mahgister; dismissed by people who seem to have inexhaustible supplies of fiat currency for buying ever more expensive upgrades; and derided by people who either cannot hear or cannot believe their own ears. There’s a lot of different personalities out there trying to be audiophiles.
When I first started reading Audiogon with some real attention, about two years ago, I was flummoxed by the differing opinions to questions that I took to be straightforward.

There are also a lot of audiophiles who simply have not yet developed the requisite skills needed to form a sound opinion. This is almost always the case early on. I can still recall back in 1990 my inability to hear any difference between CD players and DACs. Took me a good few months running around hearing lots of different things until suddenly one day Eureka! Then in no time flat there were all kinds of increasingly obvious differences between .... everything.

At least that’s the way it seems now in hindsight. Back then though it wasn’t sudden at all. It was months and months of driving around straining in vain- and not getting much encouragement. Because when the salesman has a vested interest you can’t count his encouragement, and the other fellow in the store can’t hear any difference either (this happened more than once!) and even the so-called audiophiles at the so-called audiophile club aren’t much better, its long odds.

That’s just the listening angle. There’s also technology, electronics, physics, acoustics, and psycho-acoustics to contend with. So don’t be too surprised people have greatly differing opinions. This ain’t easy. Not easy at all. There’s a saying, nothing worth doing ever is.


I will know they did read it when they have the above post removed, thus placing them in an unwinnable Catch-22. Amusing, no?
Thanks. Audiogon membership: $0. Cost of advice: $0. Triggered butt-hurt haters reading praise for millercarbon: Priceless!
 In general, will the system's sound be defined by the weakest (cable) link in the chain, in which case all the more expensive cables are a waste of money?

No. Not at all.
Or will a mix of cables that includes some really high-end ones sound better than a consistent run of the cheaper stuff?

Maybe. Probably. Sort of. Way I see it, completely beside the point.

Here is, as near as I can tell, how it works. To clue you in that I speak from experience: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367

I've used everything from freebie patch cords to $4k Synergistic Research Atmosphere Level III Euphoria. I've done a budget system where the total cost was $1200 and I've put a $2k interconnect in that system. So I know what I'm talking about.

The crappiest weakest wire does not determine the sound of the whole system. BUT if you do have a crappy cheap plastic patch cord AND everything else is much better then it does make sense to upgrade the weakest link- but NOT because its better but only because its CHEAPER!

You could for example leave the patch cord in there and still get a nice improvement with an upgrade to any other piece of wire. But the wire you get would have to be better than the wire it replaces, or its a downgrade not an upgrade. Its just a lot easier and cheaper to find something better than a patch cord. So that is the one to do. Not because it is the limiting factor. There is no such thing. But simply because it is the least cost for the most improvement.

In my system for example I could get probably about the same improvement by upgrading the interconnect, speaker cable, or power cord. But a better interconnect would be $5k, better speaker cable $7k, while a better power cord would be only about $1k. Guess which one I would do first?  

Yes, the power cord. But only because I have already done the fuses. What?!?! Yes the fuses. And the springs, cable elevators, room... oh wait maybe the diffuser. Keep putting off doing the diffuser.....

See, you asked about cables but the question really is how to get the best sound for the money. Right? This calls for taking a view of the whole system from like 10,000 feet. If you do that and your whole system- everything from the breaker box to the walls of your room- is so good the easiest/cheapest thing you can do is upgrade one interconnect, then by all means upgrade that interconnect.  

Whether or not it is cheap or expensive. What the one you are replacing costs is nothing to do with it. My last speakers were $16k retail. The current ones $5k. But they are much, much better. That's what matters. Maybe you find something like I did costs less but sounds better. Its the sound that counts. Not what it cost. How it sounds. Got it?