When I received the speakers, neither tweeter was working, and there was no continuity through either voice coil. It is hard for me to understand how shipping could result in this failure mode. Regardless, I contacted B&W to ask if their ZZ28738 drivers are so delicate that shipping would cause a VC failure. Their response was predictable. They had not experienced this.
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I paid by PayPal. Yes I am considering opening a dispute. Things might be a little different I if the D3 tweeters did not cost $960 each.
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That would be my choice for a solution. Unfortunately, the seller refused my request, preferring the warranty solution.
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Thank you for replying.
Now this will really bake your noodle. The seller works for an authorized B&W retail store. He was selling these for a client. Here is the original Audiogon description.
“These speakers were purchased from my local dealer new in May 2020. They are in perfect condition and are an amazing pair of speakers. I decided to upgrade them to the store's demo pair of 802's. The store personnel delivered and set them up originally, and they returned to box them back up for resale”.
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Rocray935-thank you for that suggestion. That’s a good idea.
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I did accept his offer to replace the tweeters under warranty. It never occurred to me that Bowers would not have the drivers in stock, and I’m sure it did not occur to the seller either. But let’s take this predicament to the extreme; what if the drivers continue to be unavailable for 12 months, or 18 months or even more. What then?
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A good idea. The sale was not sanctioned by the store. It was more of a private sale. The seller just happens to work at the authorized B&W store which allows him to submit a warranty claim.
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I may invite him to join the conversation first, which was suggested by Onhwy61. But will hold off naming names for now.
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Yo-yo yay a …I completely agree that Bowers needs to step up. Thus far I have communicated with both B&W in the UK and US on the availability issue. I have gotten various responses. My most recent request was for the international spares team leader but have not received a reply. Encompass, their distributor in the states has been useless. They have the tweeter listed, and provide a ship date about every two weeks at the end of which it simply turns over another two weeks. Very frustrating. I wonder if they have supply issues with their newly released D4’s?
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Thank you. Yes, I do have other speakers to listen to. But not like the 804’s. The drivers cost about $960 each. No aluminum housing…just the dome tweeter Itself.
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As a courtesy, I will invite the seller to join this forum. Perhaps
he will share his thoughts on a solution.
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Thank you. Yes, jumpers are fine. The voice coils are discontinuous. No continuity.
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Unfortunately, the window for PayPal dispute has closed. However, I can still submit a summary of what has happened to both Audiogon and PayPal and perhaps even the dealer.
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Yes, the positive feedback was my bad. I did not wait to critically check them out. All of my correspondence with the seller was cordial and phone calls were cooperative. That was back around the time of the purchase. I’ve obviously learned something.
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For the most part, I have believed that the seller has made an effort to resolve this by way of the warranty. However, the amount of time that his solution is taking has now become unreasonable. it is unfortunate that I waited this long. However, I have at least two avenues of recourse. Positive feedback does not relieve the seller of his responsibilities to the buyer.
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I have contacted the seller many times by email requesting refund, return, payment for new tweeters and more. He has refused all, and says that the warranty replacement is all that he will do. Period. One of my recent emails asked him if he would contact B&W to see if anything could be done. I received no response from him
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Thank you everyone for your suggestions and input. Many of you provided thoughtful discussions which has helped me formulate my approach to this issue.
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I have told the seller to send me $2000 to cover the cost of new ZZ28738 tweeters and I have also opened a dispute with Audiogon. I have further action to take should he choose to decline.
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I am currently discussing a solution with the seller mediated by Audiogon. However, if a satisfactory resolution is not reached by February 7th, I will consider publishing his Audiogon ID. I will post all updates.
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I am very aware that voice coils do not simply become discontinuous in this scenario. In addition, Bowers and Wilkins agrees with me. I am quite certain they were shipped that way and I have shared my opinion on this with the seller. Note that I have invited the seller to participate in this forum, and how these tweeters became discontinuous would be a good discussion to have with him, among other topics.
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Amazingly, the ZZ28738 tweeters are now in stock as of today so it appears that I will receive the new tweeters within a month or so.
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Roxy-I will install them myself. I have the tool necessary to remove and replace the tweeters.
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4krowme-I will keep the forum updated until this issue is completely resolved.
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The positive feedback was left before listening critically to the loudspeakers. It was my bad. You can be sure I will never do that again. I would like to remove the feedback if I could and would certainly agree to have the positive feedback he left for me removed.
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Adding to the above; Positive feedback given to the seller does not relieve the seller from his responsibilities to the buyer. I have an email chain that goes all the way back to the original sale that documents every step of this transaction.
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Yes, I agree that it was a mistake on my part to jump the gun on positive FB. No question about it. Fortunately, the seller quickly agreed to replace them after I let him know that they were not working. On several occasions in his emails, he noted that he was going to resolve the problem for me. Perhaps I will post some of the emails.
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drobin07-The question of fault has never really been a topic between me and the seller. The biggest issue for me was the time it was taking to resolve with the warranty solution. When the seller placed the warranty order, B&W (Encompass) was showing they would ship in 7 days. No problem. Once 7 days was up, it changed to 12 days. Then 56, etc. This went on for the last 6 months. And I had no idea how much longer it would take, and B&W was unable to tell me when they would be in stock again. How the tweeters were damaged was another issue. I informed the seller that I must agree to disagree that the tweeter voice coils became discontinuous during shipment. My experience in the recording industry, and my engineering background led me to this conclusion.
In any case, and as though on cue, B&W has restocked the tweeters as of yesterday. This issue will be resolved once I have them in hand.
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The seller left very good feedback for me
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Tweeters are in stock, probably in Georgia. Once the order that the seller placed in July is filled, the seller will send them to me.
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Thank you. I am looking forward to Listening!
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The solution was the result of B&W finally stocking the tweeters. The seller can now follow through with replacing them for me. Once Bowers fills the order that he placed in July, the seller will forward them straight to me. Provided all of this happens, the issue is resolved.
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This issue is nearly resolved now that Bowers & Wilkins has restocked the tweeters. The question of how the tweeter voice coils became discontinuous will never be known short of an autopsy of the drivers. I have applied my knowledge to develop a strong opinion. The seller has his opinion and I agreed to disagree, and that was that. The seller offered a solution upon my telling him about the tweeters not working. The rub (as noted in my original forum post) was that I had been waiting 6 months for the tweeter to be in stock so that he could follow through. And B&W could not tell me when they would come in. Was I to wait another 6 months? Another 8 months? What is a reasonable timeframe? What other pathway to a resolution are there? Well, the wait is now over, and there will not be another 6 months wait. As if on cue, B&W has restocked the tweeter and the seller can now send replacements. Once I receive them, this issue will then be closed.
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I have not confirmed that. I will pose the question to their support staff.
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Having them checked out prior to installing the tweeters is a good idea. It’s not worth taking the chance. Another person suggested this also.
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I asked to return them for refund several times. His last response was:
I'm not willing to do anything else. I do not feel responsible for the backorder of parts. You are free to purchase tweeters on your own and I'll still swap the other ones which you can resell later
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The new tweeters arrived yesterday, and I will be evaluating the loudspeakers over the next few days. The seller informed me that there is no need to send the original tweeters back. This gave me the opportunity to perform a limited amount of forensics on the tweeters, so I removed the dome/voice coil assembly (three screws) and inspected the voice coil. It appears that the transitional connection between the lead wire, and the VC winding wire had broken loose from voice coil proper. This was causing the discontinuity through the VC. It is very probable then, that the tweeter failures were due to physical shock as the seller was insisting. This means that the tweeters were very likely working prior to shipment which sheds a different light on many of the posts in this discussion.
Because of this information, I will have both loudspeakers checked over for any further shipping damage, now that they appear to be fully functional.
So, this appears to be resolved, however, I still had to wait 6 months before using these loudspeakers. Next time, I will immediately insist on returning the item for a full refund, rather than accept damaged or otherwise non-working goods
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