Try asking at www.audioasylum.com Good luck, W.J.S. |
It's not worth cloning! The Focal tweeter rings terribly in the audible frequency range, and the midwoofer's acoustic polarity is reversed to sum in phase with the other drivers (not good design practice at all). I mean, SUV's are hugely popular right now too, but they're a glutanous waste of steel and oil resources! BUILD A CLONE OF A BETTER SPEAKER WITH A BETTER TWEETER... |
...and very expensive too. Tweeters are 80 apiece, 150 midrange, and 190 for woofer( i'd need four!!)Plus i cant find "ansar" inductors (uk only i asume)However Carl contact me if you will. Thanks! Eldragon |
...and very expensive too. Tweeters are 80 apiece, 150 midrange, and 190 for woofer( i'd need four!!)Plus i cant find "ansar" inductors (uk only i asume)However Carl contact me if you will. Thanks! Eldragon |
carl, if you had never seen the mlissa curves on the focals, ill bet you would never have heard the peak. its pretty damn high in freq and not audible 99.44% of the time and only perverted synthisizer recordings could excite it. had i never heard the w/p set up properely, playing at live levels with NO sense of strain, id think that i was in for the heil experience after reading one of your posts on the focal.. i suggest instead of building a clone, buy a used pair. or do some homework and build something original. sure, fine drivers are pricey, but henry kloss made a business of taking inexpensive drivers and using them for their attributes. maybe in the midrange where most of the music is, you should put a fine driver. and of course, the cabinet should have much integrity. pipedreams started with pvc pipe material long ago. |
Glad to hear that you think you know what you're talking about, Tommy. Indeed I have no troble hearing the ringing, and it's right smack in the middle of the range that a CRT monitor's noise leaks into recordings, ALL TOO OFTEN. I have no troble hearing that either. IF YOU'D HEARD A REALLY GOOD SOFT DOME TWEETER, PERHAPS YOU WOULDN'T BE SO QUICK TO ASSMUE THAT THE W/P IS SUCH A GOOD BUY, even used. I agree, an original design is always best. THAT'S WHY I HAVE SEVERAL IN THE WORKS CURRENTLY. Happy listening... |
carl...im not againsnt learning. give an example of program material and what the effect on the sound the ringing is to you. i can easily fo to brooks berdan's store and he is likely to have w/pS up. he is of course a vinyl maven so some vinyl suggestions would be appreciated. i would also like to hear corroboration from some others. carl, its not that i dont believe you. i was quick to point out the slow woofers in the infinity servos and the original m+k subs much to the chagrin of the people at woodland stereo(servso) and jonas miller sound (m+k). sub sat mating is nearly as difficult as st.bernard/toy poodle mating. im open to suggestion. |
That's killer funny!....What do you mean? Are you asking what recordings have this noise in them? The list is very long, and these mostly "live" pop/rock ones come to mind first. Pink Floyd: "Pulse"; Seal's first; Peter Gabriel: "Secret World Live"; GNR: "Live Years"; Roger Daltry's "Music of Pete Townsend and The Who". I've even heard it on a few classical LP's from the golden age, but I forget which titles, right at the moment. The point is, I hear this range fine, and don't want it smeared by a tweeter, even if the CRT noise is not present. |
And the only difficult thing about sub/sat mating (besides if the sub has no remote control) is if you have somebody like a wife telling you where things need to be put in your listening room. I don't have that problem. If you don't have a dedicated listening room, then you're not dedicated to audio. You don't need to spend money and time on it unless you're serious. It's about as silly as buying an SUV...Or a sports car (and obeying speed limits on the open road). |
carl, i just realized that you must be way younger than me. im 55(cheeeeeeeep breakfast@dennys.com .i dont hear the flyback transformers ar ultrasonic alarms anymore! soooooooooo, wpS art probably ok fer me. my daughters even hear the uS dog training device we have too. it works fine on the cats, they take off upon first impulse of the thing. the dog jkust cocks hher head over like the rca poster puppy and gives the expression: wuts that??? sub amting depends on a few basics.......no hump in the satellite mid bass(as in the LS3/a which was nearly impossible to work with), variable xover point, variable level, variable phase control, and similar speed woof to sub. of course big bux to buy great drivers and electronics is really helpful. the progress made by ML in the xover region is rremarkable compared to other designs out of the past. agiain, i dont know your age. ......hifitommy@aol |
Gee Tommy, you could be my long lost Great Grandfather...just kidding! I'm a young baby at 31. What you are describing is ultrasonic, usually above human hearing. I figure I can hear about the same as the average audiopile my age, perhaps a tad over 20 kHz. I'm sure that dog whistles produce plenty of fractional harmonics that are below the fundamental, and this is what any human would be hearing if they heard anything at all, with one of these whistles. Somebody should measure one. |
ok, SUPERSONIC. im in the medical business and that word is uksed a lot there. we sense freqs above that abut its with hair follicles. julian hirsch, are you LISTENING? good riddance to him and i wouldnt have wished death on leonard feldman, just another magazine for him to write for. now it doesnt matter unfortunately. oh goody, my S&V scrip has been extended. well, arf arf. i hear my masters whistle. notttttt. you know carl, yu should have veen around for the days of early shibata styli (owwwww!) and heil drivers (same band of rough freqs). heaven forbid you hear them together. the 1st threshhold 400As had that about them tool i was much younger then. i still hear up to about 16k so i hear most of the music, glad i didnt fo to vit nam and ber subjected to gunfire. for that ill settle for the opening of EINSTRAUSSFEST on telarc. |
Carl, can you realy hear to 20kHz? Have you been tested by a medical professional or audiologist that does hearing exams. I used to have pretty good hearing, enough that the old 19 kHz Admeco ultrasonic motion detectors that were used in the late 60's and early seventites would just about instantly give me a headache when they got turned on. Of course, I was only 18-20 at the time, I always thought my hearing was excellent. So, give yourself a test. Get a good pair of headphones, and an HP 3325 signal generator (or equivalent) and sweep through the range to see where your hearing falls off. Don't use extreme power levels, even if your can't hear it, it could cause warming of the soft ear tissues. This gave me a good wake up call, I'm 48 and little over 16 kHz is about it, sadly enough. Well, thanks for the conversation. /Paul |
Paul, yes. I thought I already covered this above. My Maggies and a test CD say I can hear a 20 kHz signwave, referenced to a 1 kHz sinewave at about 79 dB on a radio shack SPL meter, in the listening seat. Of course, the 1 kHz tone sounds pretty loud at 79 dB, and the 20 kHz tone sounds several dB quieter, but I can still hear it easily, along with the accompanying intermodulation waveforms that must accompany such a waveform, in the redbook format. The 20 kHz tone sounds much "dirtier" than even the 19 kHz tone, though. The 18 and below ones sound very clean on my CD50. |
If you really want to build a nice DIY speaker look at the Focal TLR Towers. The TLR tweeter is much less harsh than the other Focal tweeters, but cost about $450 each. I built a pair of the towers and love them. Good luck! www.zalytron.com |
The guy at Zalytron has an attitude problem. I like the best soft dome tweeters, like the Revelator and Esotar. |
LOL Carl! Your right, Elliot has a very big attitude. I have had many successes working with him though. His 1 1/2" think MDF cabinets are beautify. As far as tweeters my personal prefference is still the TLR over the Revelator and Esotar. (Yes I have actually listened to them) Another favorite DIY place of mine is Michael Percy Audio. http://www.bainbridge.net/percyaudio/ Great caps, inductors, etc... |
I like the large gauge North Creek inductors very much. Michael Percy needs his own website. I can buy all the MDF I like, it's cheap...the problem is building these things. Takes a lot of time, but it'll be worth it. I hope to get someone to manufacture a couple of these some day. |
Carl, thank you for the information about www.northcreekmusic.com This is a great resource for anyone in the DIY market. |
Oh, you're very welcome. I didn't realize you hadn't heard of them. |
Zalytron has versions of their Aria 5 that use Raven and Accuton tweeters (no ringing) that are excellent designs that you may want to check. Also Kimon Bellas is a very nice guy and great designer(Orca Systems)who might be able to help you design speakers for your requirements. Good luck. |
Someone has already done a great job for you, if you're interested. Coincident Loudspeaker Technology in Canada. Israel Blume is the owner, and is quite responsive. Only problem, they don't make them any more(these shapes are too hard to work with). Look for them used, they'll be cheap. They're much like WATT/Puppies, but high sensitivity/ impedence. They're very easy to drive, and love tubes(or ss). They use a Vifa fabric dome tweeter(he will sell you ScanSpeak Revelators to upgrade, if you want), and an 8" Seas mid-woofer w/phase plug(the Mg/Cu version is found on many $10K+ speakers today). Only 2 crossover components(first order): a large guage coil, and a polypropylene cap. Subwoofers go to 22Hz with 0.5% distortion(claimed, I didn't measure). Sound is wonderful, first class. Powerful, full, and non-fatiguing. They are better than the PSB Stratus Gold-i's I used to sell by a good margin. I even prefer tham to the Wilsons(much better, smoother sound)! If you do build, go first and listen to many speakers. Find out things you like and don't like. That way you can design around your tastes. For example, see what type of tweeter you like: metal, fabric, or inverted dome, etc. If your love for the Wilson is their cool looks, do it with sound YOU like. That way you have the best of all worlds! |
