Build me a killer Rock/Metal Rig for 1K

David, I understand your wish list. Now let's get real. Some one on a tight budget should forget remote controlled tubes. To expensive to start with. An older model will probably need new tubes. That means more money. Most tube preamps have high output impedances which would restrict your choice of solid state amps with their usual low input impedance. The one exception that might fit into your budget is the McCormack amps, which by the way would accomodate a passive preamp as well. IMHO the McCormacks while rather smooth on top (important) and having good power below( also important) are a bit too forward for the Thiels. Though they would work very well only the big(read expensive)C-J solid state amps can handle the 4 Ohm load. I'm going to make some suggestions that may not fit all your criterion but I think will none the less work nicely together. These items are currently for sale on Audiogon: AMP Muse 100 2000 Special Edition (200 Watts into 4 OHms) at $625 OBO, PREAMP Audio Alchemy DLC (remote, 4 inputs, no tape loop or phono)$245 OBO, CD CAl Temperst MK III $225 OBO. I know that adds up to $1120. Remember that all these items are listed with OBO (or best offer). I think (hope) you can negotiate at least 10% off. There are some other choices out there as well. If you pay for shipping I'll send you free a pair of good condition Monster Power Line 2 speaker cables (I believe they were once Monster's top of the line). I think some body can offer you a good deal on some decent interconnects. Good luck.

Inscrutable, The Thiel 3.5 impedance load is 4 Ohms nominal and 4 Ohms minimal. Frequency response is 20 to 20K +/- 2 db. The speakers are time and phase coherent. I really think adding a sub woofer would be a big mistake. I think the most importatnt piece in this particular puzzle is the amplifier. My suggestions were based upon currently available items. My first pick in an amp any where near this price point is the C-J 2300. But alas that's would leave nothing left for the rest of the system. My next choice would be a pair of B&K M 200's. A pair recently sold for $600. Alas, the only ones currently available are being sought for 50% more that that. The C-J would permit a tube pre when more money was available. The B&K's input impedance load isn't that complimentary to tubes. An inoffensive preamp would be the second in priority. As digital improves at a faster rate than most any other products combined with typically poor (from the sellers perspective) resale value upgrades here should be considered last. I know, garbage in - garbage out. But we're dealing with a very tight budget here.

Inscrutable, those are the manufacturers specs. While all such specs need to be taken with a grain of salt I believe Thiel to be one of the better manufacturers in regard to legitimate specs. Jim Thiel intentionaly designs his products in this manner. Of course this keeps amps that are up to the impedance load very stable. Some complain that the extra components used in his crossovers to accomplish this suck the energy out of the system. I don't have an opinon on that. These speakers were $2850 when new over 10 years ago. I think the specs are pretty impressive. IMHO the sound is impressive too. This is a high performance vehicle.To add a cheap crossover and amp to this design (with the extra cost cabling) would be like putting training wheels on a Ferrari. I appreciate your innovative, out of the box thinking but I don't think it's an appropriate course of action. BTW Thiel origianlly recommended 40-250 watts per channel then increased the recommedation to 50-250 watts per channel. When I asked Jim Thiel about these recommendations he said that they were in reference to standard solid state 8 Ohm ratings and a more accurate guide would be 100-500 watts into 4 Ohms. Unlike many other speakers The Thiels don't roll off the top end. As such any abberations in this region will be heard loud and clear. That's why many say the Thiels are bright and need warm and/or tube equipment preceeding them. There is some truth to this. I would argue that you really need clean, accurate equipment preceeding them, other wise you might be throwing away some of that resolution. What's needed is a powerfull, clean amp that can handle a steady 4 Ohm load. That kind of amp usually costs money. If one can't afford that, then the warm compensating approach would make more sense than going with a typical cheap bright, chalky front end.

Inscrutable and Dave, I can't comment about most of your recommendations mentioned above, as I don't have any experience with most of them. I do agree with your McCormack recommendation whole heartedly as a viable option. Dave, how about an update?

David, I would love to buy your speakers from you. That said, I belive the system I recommended from the available items for sale on Audiogon in the above post and some of the latter suggestions for items not currently available would make you happy. All of the items mentioned were bargains that competed fairly well against more expensive competitors when new. The amp appears to be new. If you look at the origianl list price of these items and compare them with the origianl list price of your speakers,you'll see that their not out of their league. BTW, the price of the Muse amp has just been reduced and if you could swing a bit more money (perhaps spending a little less on the CD player (Marantz?) you might be able to go for the Muse 150 mono's (300 Watts into 4 Ohms)that are also for sale. You might be able to put the Thiel's equalizer between the CD player and the amp. Unfortunatley I don't know how this would effect the signal with regards to input and output impedance and drain on the signal strenght level. I would strongly recommend talking to Thiel before embarking on this. To do this you'll need a CD player with a high quality volume control, high output, low output impedance going into short low capacitance interconnects into the Equalizer into short low capcitance interconnects (if the equalizer doesn't have a captive cable)into an amp that is very sensitive and has a high input impedance and between 100 and 500 Watts into 4 Ohms. BTW, at the risk of offending many here on Audiogon, I don't think it's necessary to have a tube preamp to have good sound with the Thiels. The best set up I ever heard with Thiel 3.5's was completely solid state (I'll admit it wasn't an inexpensive system). If you previously enjoyed a low powered Pass amp, perhaps your not the headbanger we all seem to think you are. I'm sure a lot of the advise given here has been done with that perception. Don't get too frustrated, there are always solutions. Keep us up to date on your decisisons. Good luck and good listening.

David, the Electrocompaniet gear should sound wonderful with the Thiels. I think your unit puts out 120 (?) watts into 4 Ohms. While they don't quite double down, they are stable to 2 Ohms, they should have no problem with the Thiel 3.5's 4 Ohm load. The Electrocompaniet sound is warm and velvety with out any hint of bightness. They remind me of the much more expensive Mark Levinson gear. In addition they have a rather high input impedance which should make matching a tube preamp quite synergistic. While I'm enthusastic about your choice in amps I wonder if they have the power to provide you "A KILLER ROCK/METAL RIG" with the Thiel 3.5's. The Thiel 3.5's "real" power recommendation is 100-500 watts into 4 Ohms. While it's obviously a rather crude recommendation, the old cliche' in HiFi to double the the manufacturers minimum power recommendation seems to have worked for a lot of people for a long time. As for the Audcom, it's a bit of an unknown quantity (quality?) and there lies the rub. Yes, I've seen the ads but with out personal experince I wouldn't make a recommendation. Just because it has tubes doesn't necessarily make it good. I hope it all works out for you.

David, best of luck on your new system. Please give us an update after you have everything settled in. Perhaps you can give a review on the Audcom. You may have discovered the next great bargain. Give me a call, so we can get those cables out to you. BTW, you can keep them. Should you upgrade just send on to the next person in similar circumstances.

Bbtuna, brings up some great ideas. If the Electrocompaniet can be bridged you might get all you were looking for and then some. IMHO the Nordost might work very well with Electrocompaniet, especially as interconnects in your particular system. There are some really good buys (as low as $15) on Straightwire and Wire World cables right now on Audiogon. Your speakers are internaly wired with Straightwire and the Wire World products are from the same designer as Straightwire. What's your budget for a source?