Hi Fpeel,I had a 3BST that was replaced by DNA-1 Deluxe. The biggest differences was that the DNA was smoother in the highs and the 3BST had a tad more bass slam (This made the DNA much more listenable with loud and brighter recorded music.I also plan to get the revision A upgrade when my budget allows.The Line 1 is a good choice as I had a SFL-1 Signature that is said to sound simular to the Line 1 and it sounded nice with the 3BST. I recently replaced the SFL-1 Sig with a new Audible Illusions 3MA.(The 3Ma has had upgrades every year since 1996)and the detail and micro dynamics was the most noticeable improvement and the sound improves with tube upgrades.Downside on A I ,is that service takes at least a month or two.I ,ironically also have a the Hales Revelation 3's and my Cal Alpha(also have the Delta) recently returned with the 24/96 upgrade and is well worth the $450. Some have complained about clicking between tracks.This can be eliminated by a simple mod. when you tell service the dac is to be used for audio only.I also have a PS Audio PP 300 which makes a very nice difference and I plan to try a couple of Lab Cables once the long wait is over due to the world copper shortage.I also am interested to try a Reference Line Preemminance 2 passive line pre amp when I can find a mint used unit on the net,and there will be a showdown with the A I M3A.I also am usng the very latest MIT High End Series Shotgun cables between speakers and components and am extremely pleased with their performance.Happy listening with what I can confirm is a well matched and very satisfying sounding system. |
?? Any DC output offset on some tube preamps?? I'm following this thread with great interest (owning a DNA-1 myself) that worked pretty well when once auditioned with a Golden Tube SEP-2 preamp. However, my dealer told me to be very careful of mating some tube preamps with transistor PA's, as some tube preamps have DC output offset, which would really be a problem into a direct-coupled PA! Has anyone experienced this problem, or wishes to otherwise share experiences? |
As a late response, ditto! Tubes are great but I can't afford to retube either. The McCormick and the AL3a is a great combination and a poor man's answer to enveloping tube sound. I don't own this set up, however a freind does, and has for some time. This connected to Vanderstiens and VPI/VPI memorial is great. Nordost and a Benz completes the system. |
I couldn't agree more Garfish. To get the top to bottom coherence of a good solid state amp, you would have to buy high 4 figure or possibly a five figure tubed amp. Then there's the retubing... 70 watts per channel = $$$$ at the tube store once a year. Dont get me wrong, Jerry, I Love the sound of say, CJ Premier 8's, but I cant even afford their tubes once a year, much less the amps themselves. It IS all about the music. But a solid state amp, the McCormacks at that (I guarantee you if Stereophile accepted no advertising, these would be in the Class A listing) paired with a tubed Preamp (now... 2 12AU7's, I can handle that once every 2 years) gives you MOST of the magic of a full tubed rig. IT is all about the music, and if a 20 watt Jolida Tubed integrated does it for you, then great. I would rather find a speaker that I agree with, then find supporting components. IF I could live with Klipschorns, then I guess a 2A3 or 300B based 3 to 7 watt per channel amp would be the answer. Anyway, I like to see the sharing of opinions and information in such a positive manner as in this particular posting. It's refreshing to see that some of us are still interested in spreading the knowledge and love of a truly noble quest. |
I couldn't agree more Garfish. To get the top to bottom coherence of a good solid state amp, you would have to buy high 4 figure or possibly a five figure tubed amp. Then there's the retubing... 70 watts per channel = $$$$ at the tube store once a year. Dont get me wrong, Jerry, I Love the sound of say, CJ Premier 8's, but I cant even afford their tubes once a year, much less the amps themselves. It IS all about the music. But a solid state amp, the McCormacks at that (I guarantee you if Stereophile accepted no advertising, these would be in the Class A listing) paired with a tubed Preamp (now... 2 12AU7's, I can handle that once every 2 years) gives you MOST of the magic of a full tubed rig. IT is all about the music, and if a 20 watt Jolida Tubed integrated does it for you, then great. I would rather find a speaker that I agree with, then find supporting components. IF I could live with Klipschorns, then I guess a 2A3 or 300B based 3 to 7 watt per channel amp would be the answer. Anyway, I like to see the sharing of opinions and information in such a positive manner as in this particular posting. It's refreshing to see that some of us are still interested in spreading the knowledge and love of a truly noble quest. |
Hi (again) Fpeel; I thought AJ made the case for tubes very well also, and I've tried a comparably priced tube amp; the midrange and highs were beautiful, but the bass, although deep, was so slow, bloated, and boomy that I knew it was not for me. I listen to a lot of populat, mid-bass heavy music (blues, soul, rock, pop etc), and good bass control is essential to me. I've personally found that a good tubed pre-amp with a good solid state amp is the way to go. I have nothing against good tube equipment. You've made a good choice. Enjoy. Craig |
This is a bit off topic, but I did start the thread, right? Doesn't that allow for a bit of literary license? :-) audiojerry is right. Not the part about SS vs. tubes, but the emotional aspect, that it's the beauty of the music that really matters. That's why I bought the Hales: only one other speaker I auditioned, and could afford, drew me emotionally into the music to the point that it gave me goose bumps. Unfortunately, the first speakers were not full range, but were very directional and positionally tempermental. Not the best solution. My second choice wasn't so tempermental, but didn't so excite me. I was about to buy them figuring that, as usual, my champagne tastes were overloading my beer budget. Then, on a last minute whim, I heard the Hales. Not only are they full range and position tolerant, they also excite me! That's why I bought them virtually on the spot (ok, after a 3.5 hour audition). My interest in the McCormack is not a horsepower thing (well, not completely; I do want adequate headroom), but more its reputation for not adding or subtracting from the music. The music is why I'm interested in eventually having the McCormacks upgraded: the upgrade doesn't make the amp more powerful, it's strictly intended to improve the amp's overall characteristics. The McCormack *is* SS and to that end the pre-amp and DAC are both tubed (SF Line 1 and CAL Alpha), albeit that the Line 1 is less traditional in its "tubiness". So, ultimately I'm shooting for the best of both worlds. The cheap, available power of SS and the cleanness and focus of tubes. All because AJ is right, this really is about the music. I'll step off my soapbox now. Thanks for the input, AJ. |
My oh My. I used to be just like you guys - solid state all the way. I owned some great SS stuff like Threshold and McCormack. I kept moving up the power ladder going from 100 class A watts to 375, but always felt there was something lacking, and thought it was power. Then I got tricked one day into listening to tubes... SS people need to see the light. It's not about power. It's not about accuracy. It's not about distortion. None of these 'measurable' ratings have anything to do with what it's all about - the beauty of music. Solid state can't play music (at least not unless you can spend 5 figures). Tubes get you into the music like in a magical, emotional way. If you want to love music, you've got to free your mind and your spirit and get into tubes! |
Hi Fpeel; Glad to hear you got a couple of good deals. The DNA-1 with SF Line 1 is an excellent combination. But-- if you don't like the neutral character of the Line 1 (I like it) just change tubes and you can get sound as warm as you want. Enjoy. Craig |
Great to hear you got some deals. I'm sure the DNA 1 will be ok, especially if you are serious about upgrading to Rev A status, I hear that the Rev A version of the DNA 1 is WICKED. BE sure to give the amp 100 or so hours to break in, before you get nit-picky, and the Hales, well, jeez, maybe they'll be broken in by Christmas! Happy Listening! |
Well, I've located a new-in-the-box McCormack DNA-1 (standard) and Sonic Frontiers Line 1 at what are essentially used prices. Hard to pass up, especially since they have the full factory warranties intact (I'm a worry wart about these things, so will enjoy the added comfort). They're also a local purchase (more comfort). SMc said the amp was made just before the company moved to VA, so not only is it a late model, it's also a *real* McCormack amp (for what that's worth). Getting these so cheaply means upgrading the amp to Revision A (and possibly beyond; SMc says they have some new options available) will be a definite near-term option. Hopefully that will take care of any short comings compared to the standard DNA-0.5. ;-) Ultimately, if I don't like the DNA-1 I can always sell it and "downgrade" to a 0.5. Or two. ;-) ;-) Thanks for the feedback, guys. |
Hello! I own Rev 3's, and I love them , too. Anyway, I bought a McCormack DNA .5 standard, which, to my ears, at least, outperformed the DNA 1 standard in terms of soundstaging and detail. According to SMC audio (Steve McCormack's NEW company that does the modifications) , alot of people actually prefer the .5 Standard to the 1 Standard.. Wierd, huh? Anyway, I use a Conrad Johnson Preamp, the PV 11, which is pretty old. I had a PV10AL, which retails for around a grand. It was a wonderful introduction to tubes. It does sound, "tubey", compared to the PV 11, and I'm sure it sounds tubey when placed side by side with the Audible Illusions Modulus 3, which is a great preamp. But come on guys, tubey is OK. Tubed gear has a sound. That's why we love it. With the sound, you get palpability beyond what is available to people using solid state throughout. SO... I say, Hales love the DNA .5, mine do, anyway. (200w into the Hales 4 ohm load, versus 350 for the DNA 1) 200 IS enough, unless you're planning to move to a cathedral. I just saw a used DNA.5 for $800 on the NEW TODAY page. I think you would love it. You could buy used, and have the option to upgrade through SMC. I would also suggest that you go with a tubed preamp. I love my CJ, but if I had $2-3K, the Audible would be at the top of my list. If you've got $1.5K, check out the CJ PV10, or especially the PV12. They sound ravishing. Happy Listening! |
The DNA-1 is a great amp for any speaker. I have owned numerous McCormack amps and found them to be at their best with the Audible Illusions Modulus 3A preamp. The AL tubes seem to work wonders adding a bloom to the sound while maintaining the McCormack speed. It seems to make everything more musical and more music comes through. The AL is a Stereophile class "A" component and I feel it takes the McCormack up also. You always have the option of one of Steve McCormack's upgrade paths beyond the deluxe version. In comparison, the Bryston sounds lean and leaves no doubt it is a transistor amp. I have actually listened at a friends house to a pair of Revelations with these amps and the McCormack/Audible combination won by quite a distance. |
Hi Fpeel; I've not heard the Bryston's, and they have a good reputation, but I know the McC. DNA-1 is a great amp. I used it for 3 years with both Vand. 2Ce and 3Asig speakers. It's neutral enough that it should do well with the Hales. I also like the SF Line 1 or 2 pre-amp with McCormack amps-- smooth, detailed, but definitely not "tubey" sounding (unless you change the stock tubes). Happy listening. Craig |
I own the Hales 3 and DNA-1. I thought the DNA-05 didnt have enough power to drive the bass. If the u can find the DNA Deluxe used buy it. It sounds sweet. Another great choice for those speakers i hear is the Krell. If you are thinking of resale for the amp Krell is first. |
Left out some possibly important details: Listening is mostly jazz and "old guy" rock (no head banging...), but not limited to such (variety *is* the spice of life). 12.5'x17.5'x8' room (this will eventually change as I rent). The amp and pre-amp will be purchased *very* soon. Unfortunately I am not able to audition the McCormack and would buy it used. Feedback from anyone who is familiar with Bryston and McCormack would be appreciated. TIA. |
