Chris,Thanks for all the wisdom,Funny thing dec30th I purchased an intergraded.Pathos, and spoke to John at the Cable co. about getting all Audience.I"m not sure how to spell it but WOW De ja vu |
I skimmed thru most of this thread---What this guy needs is Lowther horns. They don't look any different than regular speakers. Just the cone protrudes the enclosure. Talk about speakers that sound good walking around--these sound great in the next room. In the midrange they have few equals.Cheap and cheap to drive. You will need a sub--(maybe) |
I would star over and start simple, forget expensive interconnects and wire, start with basic cable, you hear what you hear, I have owned aheard in my house lots of hi end gear, some sounds good, great and awful. I have tubes and ss. Try to fund a dealer who will loan you some stuff and if you like it go with that, as always trust your ear.
I own Mcintosh and love it. |
Gellis1,
I think that is a great choice. I am sure you will probably prefer the Pathos over your current seperates and you eliminated a need for a pair of interconnects. I think you will also dig the Au24. It does not look like much but it is the best I have used. I went from using AudioQuest Anaconda and Volcano to it and have not looked back. Make sure you use their PowerChords on what you can like the Pathos, your CD Player, Etc.
Now see if you can't get a one box CD player and try it with your current set up. I would put money on the table it will sound better. Good luck!
Chris |
Maybe you've played too long and too loud without hearing protection. Get an aural test for the heck of it, it's not too expensive. |
I read the AU24 interconnect wasn't as nice sounding as the speaker cable. I thought interconnects needed sheilding but not speaker. How do the interconnects work without sheilding? |
Gellis1,
Take a look at Kimber's PBG and KCAG, neither sheilded. They do offer a sheilded version of the PBJ and it sounds worse. One example but do not worry about it. You will be fine using a digital source. Trust me on this. You will dig the cables.
Chris |
Hey Homer,What yah say,I can't here U...... |
Gellis, your system looks good to me. Please pay attention to room acoustics and try some sound proofing. When there are lots of reflective surfaces, you can apply diffusors. Be very judiciously with absorbers, because they tend to make the sound lifeless. I don't like rubber or sorbothane feet under the equipment, because of the same results. To me wood is the best material to use with audio equipment, not glass, not marble or granite, not metal or high-tech materials like carbon. The use of cones will lead to thinning of the sound and shrillness. Don't be obsessive with cables, because my credo is: A system is INHERENTLY good or bad sounding. This has nothing to do at all with cables, tweaks, whatsoever! A bad system will not sound good when applying $10,000 worth of cables! |
I agree with Larryb. Most high end is not great for rock music. Resolving and revealing, airy and transparent, these are generally not the ultimate sonic goals of a rock-oriented system IMO. I went through this process, and ultimately decided that simpler is better.
When I had a Jolida 502B paired with Soliloquy 5.3 speakers and an Adire Rava sub, I found I was totally engaged when listening to rock/pop/country. With the switch to an Audio Aero Prima Hybrid, the bass got tighter and punchier, and the sound was equally as engaging. By the time we upgraded to a $2200 CD player, and a pair of $6500 speakers, the musicality of the system far surpassed that of the recordings, and we were beset on a quest similar to yours: to tweak the thing to death until we realized that the simplest (and less expensive) system worked best for us when it came to this genre of music.
On another note (so to speak), how do you like the Cremona's? I found them to be exactly as you described your system as a whole--sterile, and harsh in the highs. Are they more to your liking with the addition of the Pathos? I would think that you would find the music more to your liking with some tubes in the system--either in the form of a hybrid or tube amp.
For our rock-oriented system, we are reverting to something simple:
Audio Aero Prima Hybrid Amp
Simple CD player: Rega Planet or Naim CD5i
Soliloquy speakers (probably 6.3)
I did not care for the AU24 IC's, nor did my wife. Smoothed over highs, and frankly boring in our system. We much prefer the clarity and immediacy of the Z-Squared. Or the Verastarr.
Sorry if this sounds scattered. I'm just trying to say that when it comes to creating an engaging system for the type of music you like, I would suggest that less is more.
Happy New Year,
Howard |
I dont agree with that,music is music,rock, jazz,pop,classical etc...a good system should sound good on whatever type you play on it,sure some systems might shine a bit on quartets or full orchestral, but a real hi end system should sound good, very good or whats the point. Also if you are tweaking your system it means it doesnt sound good. If you keep searching for equipment that has more "air" your search will never end because that is NOT music. Again a system that is musical makes you want to listen to more music....not tweak and fiddle etc.....so if you dont get that from your equipment, it aint musical pure and simple....may have alot of "air" and "soundstage" though but who cares,if you are not tapping your foot and in the groove...like I said, whats the point ? |
Music is not music, Ben. If that were the case, then we'd all be running the same components. I would piece together a system that would play Diana Krall just as well as it would Metallica, and then insist that all others match my standards for toe-tapping engagement.
You just asked the other day about SET amps, and I think you will find as you mate them with your K-horns, that they will shine with some musical genres (jazz & classical, for example), and less so on others, like hard rock. The more revealing the system, the more you get. But that air to which you refer is indeed part of the music, as in the space around the players, and the acoustics of the recording studio. Some people actually like to hear that, as it offers a dimensionality to the experience that otherwise is kept under wraps by the associated equipment. In other words, listen to a SET amp, and you might hear that it is dramatically different than your push/pull, in the same way that a 5-iron is not a 3-wood, and one club (or amp) does not necessarily cover the entire game with aplomb.
It's wonderful that you have found, as you call it, the 'point' of music. But your point is not likely to mimic that of all other people. That, in my perhaps not so humble opinion, is exactly the goal of this forum. To learn what else is out there, beyond the standards that appear as absolute truths in no place else but our own mind. |
The reason i say this is because i do listen to a wide range of music, from Aerosmith to mary black and lots in between. I play drums and have been in a few bands, have also done a full length,pro recorded cd in Boston,my point is we don't know what the "air is supposed to be" or the "imaging" etc...I fully agree with Linn's view about home hifi...the easier it is to follow the tune the more njoyable it is. I was there when we did our cd....medium size room,bass player was next to me...1st guitar player was 12 ft away behind a screen...2nd guitar player/vocalist was in a booth...12 feet away,
there was no "image" but when I play it at home there is an "image" pretty much sounds like most other cds...there is alot of mixing, overdubbing etc that goes on in recording. So when somebody says " this system images great" or "has great air" they are pulling at straws....because they were not there.....what I think they are really trying to say is....I like the sound.....and thats fine....but how many people who say " they like the sound" are tweaking and fiddling and in my opinion not really listening to the music....they are listening to the equipment. |
I think I'm taking this thread in an unrelated direction, so I'll write to Superhonestben directly.
Good luck, Gellis1, and please post what you decide on. |
the whole point of this forum is to share ideas and opinions,we don't have to agree, my opinions on hi end audio are founded from first hand experience...listening to the equipment in my home. I have heard quite a bit of gear in my home, not just the stores. In the last year or so I have had the following in my home to listen to.
Amps.. Mac 252,Mac 402, Mac 501s Mac mc275
Vtl mb125,Vtl 185,Vtl st150 and st85
Goldmund 2.3...a gaggle of Naim. some Mark Levinson
ARC vs55,dynaco st 70 radii set
Pre amps..Vtl 7.5 vtl5.5 vtl 2.5
Linn wakonda,Mac c2200 mac c45
cd players Linn cd12,linn ikemi, linn ghenki,Mark levinson 390s,meridian, ayre,rega and consonance
a gaggle of "hi end " interconnects
What do I own...Khorns,Linn Ninkas and a pair of B&W CM2 bookshelfs...I have a Mac c220,Macmc275 and a Mac 252, a VTL 2.5 and a st85, a restored dynaco st70 a pair of Radii set mono amps, a mac cd player...a Linn Ikemi/wakonda/lk100.
It basically is 3 systems larg, medium and small...oh I use linn and naim speaker wire with basic interconnects.
I listen to all 3 and I like them all, I found the sound to be musical and engaging and fun...the Mac gear simply smokes on the little B&ws and does quite well on the khorns,...Vtl works super on the khorns and the 2.5 is one hell of a bargain in a pre amp...the little radii are nice and only 3 watts(they are not my favorite though) and the dynaco is a gem on the khorns....the ninkas work very well with the linn gear....All I can tell you is what I hear, to the gent that started this post, I feel for you, you simply haven't found what you are looking for....as always trust your ears. |
