I also owm a dual run of Poimia Speaker cables from my Krell KSA-250 to Legacy Focus Speakers.
Contracy to what ridge street cables claims I have found that they need lots of break in time for the bass to develop. I know they claim they sound good right away , but I did not think so. I also ran them on a Audiodharma Cable cooker for a few days. I used mine for about 45 days and finally got them broken in , and I asked for a slightly longer pair, which Robert Abliged , but here I go again with the break in blues, just as you described. From my past experinece , I am not worried , eventually the bass gets deeper and well defined. If you would like I can burn the cables in for you. |
Tom, I agree the problem is not in your system which makes me think you already have what you need with the Nordost. I would consider working on small adjustments to your speaker placement and your isolation of components. I have been amazed at how good equipment like yours responds to different cones and/ or bearing isolation. If you have questions regarding this post please e-mail me, I'd be happy to go into more detail. I would need to understand your room size, and speaker location along with your listening position. |
Bi-wire seems to be have accepted benefits in this thread, although how best to achieve its full benefit does not seem to have much agreement. My equipment manufacturers weren't much help in this regard. Both my speakers and amp have bi-wire facility (extra sets of binding posts). I checked the owner's manuals for each product. Neither offered any justification for using the extra terminals - just a statement that they are there if you think you need to use them. That seems a strong clue that they are there to help move gear out the door rather than for audio enhancement. I can't for think of any reason why 2 pipes would be audibly better than 1, assuming the 1 is properly sized, but since I happened to have a couple of very different speaker cable sets lying around, I said what the hey, let's hook 'em up. One set came with my used speakers (I would never have bought such); it's a funky braid of 8 individually jacketed 23AWG wires. The other is my standard bulk copper 12AWG zip. Since the braided cable has less than half the inductance of the zip, I decided to use it on the hi side. At least one speaker manufacturer says using different types of cables will ruin the sound. OTH, the owner's manual for mine suggests using different type cables. Go figure. Doesn't exactly sound like science going down here. Cutting to the chase, my system sounded great with one pipe and it sounds great with two pipes. Am I happy? You bet. I hate to see things go unused (personal hang-up). Now all my binding posts are in service of my sound. Yippee. YMMV. |
Tom - reading your post, I would try Luminous Synchestra Signature speaker cables, and the Luminous Synchestra Reference ICs. I have both the Luminous and Poiemas here at the moment - both fully run in and if the Poiema lacks energy and dynamics then the Luminous will take you in the right direction. There is a bigger difference between the ICs than between the SCs. I have rejected the Poiema ICs, but am undecided between the Poiema and Luminous SCs. The Luminous is more revealing, faster and much larger (soundstage/images etc), but is perhaps a little too revealing for poor old redbook CDs. |
Tom, I'm sorry I didn't previously see your system posted. You may get more feedback by trying a post over on audio asylum's cable forum. There are many good cables discussed over there, and folks who have tried and compared them. You also occasionally get feedback from various manufacturers over there. You have mentioned several good cables, that I have not tried. Some other well-liked cables I have not tried include Audience AU24, Purist Audio Dominus, and Kimber Select. - Tim |
I prefer not to Bi-wire any speaker. Same results everytime to my ears. Smaller soundstage, loss of coherence and bass definition. I open up the terminal plate and connect internally to 1 set of posts. Side benefit is the larger selection of wires to choose from- and reduced cost to boot. |
i run different speaker cables on my biwired alons.
what you are probably hearing is a differnce in the "speed" of the differnce cables and they are not fully intergrating.
i had noticed this when i had a "slower" cable on top and a faster on the bottom. you can experiment by exchanging the two and listening.
i would guess since the silver is a much smaller gauge, you might noitce a differnce. you might want to try a similar cable on the bottom....
the key is to experiment. there have been combinations of cables that have work well together and i have speculated that they didnt( when it turns out they did).
good luck,
mike |
Hi Tim, You raised valid points, esp mucking up the speaker's radically tonal balance by using different cables.
I did post my system, but I don't think I have "popular" amp or speaker. Any way, here goes the material parts :
power amp: Chord 1200B
solid state A-B, 250Wpc, very dynamic and transparent, neutral, not warm. Don't think the problem lies here.
speakers : Wilson Benesch Discovery
2.5 way carbon fibre integral stand mounted monitor
2 x 7" isobaric downward firing bass drivers, 1 x 7" mid range unit, 1 x 1" soft dome silk tweeter
crossover freq : Bass 500Hz , Mid & Tweeter 5kHz
1st order bass roll-off, 1st order mid range crossover, 2nd order tweeter crossover
polypropylene capacitors and air cored inductors in X-over.
bi-wireable, internal multi-stranded silver plated copper wiring.
I used Nordost SPM, it was OK but lean in the bass. I have tried Valhalla, it was much better but too much money. The Poiema gives a more refined presentation but lacks (so far IMS) energy and dynamics. A friend's home brew cryoed copper was surprisingly good and very musical, but not as transparent or detailed as any of the above cables. Have tried Cardas, didn't like it.
That leaves the Omega Mikro (unthinkable from a practical point of view), the Pure Note Cerulean, or others that I am not aware of.
Thanks,
Tom
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Hi Tom, you should consider several factors in your cable search. First, you have not posted your system. If you do, chances are better you will get some more specific recommendations from those who have the same speakers and components. Second, you should consider where the speaker crosses over. The designer of your speakers was sure to consider the tonal balance between HF and LF if a bi-wire option was provided. If the LF is simply a "subwoofer" in that it operates at a very low frequency (e.g., lower than around 100-200 hz) then the differences in cables will be less important. However if the crossover is up in the lower midrange area, you are likely to muck up the tonal balance by using different cables, especially ones as different sounding as silver and copper. My general suggestion is to find a cable you like and use two runs. Some manufacturers make a lighter gauge cable of the same materials, with the same sonic qualities, that you could use for the HF while using a larger awg cable of the same make for the LF. You could consider internal bi-wire from someone like Cardas, which tends to throw a lot of copper into their higher end wires. If on a budget, the Jon Risch CC89259 diy cables are quite neutral and would offer that dynamic sound you are looking for. You could even go with the "quad" version for your LF if you wanted that last bit of bass. You could also consider trying different options from The Cable Co. Good luck. - Tim |
Thanks for your response guys.
La Fashionista is not that bad. She complains about the monsterous Shunyata and Electraglide power cords, I hide my credit card bills well. All's fair ;-)
Once in a blue moon, I get a remark along the lines "this sounds good, what did you do ?" Most times, I am allowed a free run. I can't however have extreme stuff because of two highly intelligent and extremely inquisitive juvenille life form.
Listener and Sherod, thanks - I will look up your suggestions.
Darryl, I have tried the Poiemas on the bass. Doesn't do it for me some how ?? I have spoken to Mnh and Robert @ RSA, for some reason the Poiema has not sung for me yet. Don't get me wrong, The Poiema is great sounding, I thought the delicate portrayal is to die for (as far as refinement goes). However, I do like a bit of the rougher (dynamic) side as well. My Poiema so far has not revealed that side. I don't think it is my source or pre-power. I will try again after a few days - it may simply be a question of extended setlling in.
Tom |
I would temporaily switch out the Poemia and put it on the bottom. You may be surprised with the bass capabilities. Then if you like it , just get another pair of Poemia's.
I originally was kind of thinking like you and was going to use AZ Sen Satoris on the bottom and Poeima's on the top.
I now have bi wired Poeima's {shotgun} and Im very pleased with the results. I cant swear to it , but I beleive the sound is quicker on The Silver Poeima's, which may explain why you are hearing a phase shift. |
You might consider trying the new Flexygy 6 cables from River Cable. They are flat like Nordost for WAF and have a nice, neutral sound with good body. They offer a 30 day money-back guarantee, so you have nothing to lose.Plus their price is very reasonable and affordable. Their website is www.rivercable.com Just click on the Flexy logo. You can order directly from their site. Good luck. |
I formerly used Alpha Goertz big shiny copper ribbon MI-3 for excellent full range results, including body, detail, and transparency. Then added for the upper treble range, silver ribbon AG-1, with bi-wiring. Similar to your speaker cable search. By using cables from the same company, I did not feel any problem with integration of different parts of the audio spectrum, and there was an overall perfecting of the sound. I cannot tell whether WAF allows for ribbon cables.
My current cables are Gregg Straley's custom single wire cables, which are the best to my ears, very low cost, and come with money back guarantee. They are coated with an attractive finish in the red spectrum, so cannot know whether they appeal to the fashion police, in your household. Omega Mikro are out of my league price-wise, and are probably more exotic than you really need to achieve satisfying sound.
I found all the attributes you mention, by switching to a single cable, so the copper-silver debate is not the sole factor in achieving system synergy. Nor is going exotic, with its more demanding set up constraints in a room shared with rest of the family. |
Oh, I should add this.
power amp: Chord 1200B, solid state A-B, 250Wpc
speakers : Wilson Benesch Discovery, smallish stand mounts.
thanks
Tom |
