Binding Post Jumpers - New Product!!!

@david_ten - I cannot provide any scientific proof - but yping has tried using the bananas simply as connectors and heard improvements.

Scroll to the bottom of the first "page" of this thread for his comments
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-much-difference-could-a-simple-banana-plug-make

If you have banana plugs and bi-wire speaker terminal this product just provides an easy method of connection them  AND they are extremely good at what they do.

The advantage is that the Banana plugs used on them  are extremely well engineered and work very well

I use the Bananas on my cables and they provided more of everything across the board - I could not believe what I was hearing from a "simple" banana plug

Sorry I could not provide better comments

@loftarasa - Yes - the binding posts can be a "hindrance". But so can the Bananas and the actual wire used.

If you look at the photo of the jumpers you will see that the neutral jumper has a twisted geometry and is of a thicker gauge. This is the design of KLE Innovations higher end speaker cables and is designed to enhance current/electron flow. They also use very high quality metal conductors (sometimes alloys) to improve sound quality, as well as their extremely well engineered bananas plugs.

Using their precision banana it would appear you can improve on the the negative effects of the binding post - at least that was my experience.

When I first tried the Bananas I was very surprised at the improvement in sound quality that I heard - I’m pretty sure these jumpers will improve the performance of most bi-wired speakers using a single speaker cable.

But that "opinion" is based solely on my observations of their other products that I have reviewed/owned

Hope that helps

@whitestix - I would have to agree with @yping - I have auditioned - reviewed - and purchased many products from KLE Innovations and have yet to receive a product that does not excel.

Granted - the look of the plastic housing may not be as "pretty" as some audiophiles might like, but the metal part of the banana is very well engineered AND a top performer from a sound quality perspective.

So I have to ask....
- did you actually attach them to some cables and allow them to burn in for 120 hours?
- if so - what did you find were their shortcomings?
- did you return them for a full refund?
- and - did you receive a refund?

I am puzzled by your posting - mainly because assessing something as "Pure Cr**? is not very enlightening to other readers

I have read some of your other posts and it would seem you normally provide useful comments - which makes me wonder why are you so upset with these plugs?

FYI - and for the benefit of other readers...
- YES - you will see I have mentioned KLEI products in numerous forum threads in the past, simply because I found them to be the best products I have tried
- YES - I do contact KLE Innovations from time to time - if only to pass on a review (at no charge) or provide product feedback - that is the extent of my relationship with KLEI

Did KLEI ask me to respond to this rather disparaging comment? - NO!

I think comments such as "pure Cr**" serves no "useful purpose" except to allow a person to vent - i.e. without explanation.

Regards - Steve Reeve

@whitestix - negative feedback sometimes leads to improvements :-)

To address some of your comments...

RE:

I find no way to re-open the hinged plastic flap after it has been closed

This one was quite simple to address - simply insert a small screwdriver (or an old banana plug) into the hole over the longer of the two barrels and lever the flap to the open position. But be sure to insert it into the flap and not into the actual metal part of the plug.

This can be done several times, but care should be taken not to overwork the two little locking tabs that hold the flap in place

Perhaps this should have been an included instruction?

RE:
The plastic housing was thin and poorly manufactured

I think KLE Innovations is trying to keep the cost as low as possible and as such, they tend to keep costs down where there is no need for extravagantly finished materials. The housing is effective, but I agree, not that pretty to look at

However - the materials used to make the actual conductive part of the plug is extremely advanced and the plug is made to extremely fine tolerances.

As stated in the initial post - they do outperform all other banana connectors I have tried from a sound quality perspective.

When I first received my plugs I must admit I took several minutes to figure out exactly how they should be connected and it was not until they were installed that I figured out how to re-open the flap.

It s a great pity you did not have a more positive experience get to enjoy the improvement in sound quality that these plugs convey.

I will send the link to this thread to KLE Innovations so they can perhaps update their "tips" page on how to reopen the flap.

Regards - Steve

@whitestix - after giving your posts more thought I think there are a couple of points that I feel I should address for other readers - so please do not think I am still trying to change your mind.

RE:...

I bought these connectors to pig back the wires from my sub to my 2-channel amp

I think that using the KLEI bananas to connect a sub to an amp via speaker cables may be "overkill" for the following reasons...

1. even if you have a pair of subs - bass frequencies are far less able to convey a sense of space/image which is one of the things these plugs excel at in the mid/upper frequencies.
   
2. I prefer to use the Line-in on a sub and not the speaker leads - in my mind this method of connection may have a negative effect on the dynamics these plugs are capable of conveying

You might have heard an improvement in the sound out of the actual speakers i.e. if you had connected them to your cables, but I think you would not have noticed a similar level of improvement from the sub’s

RE: -

The KLE connectors I bought were 45X the price of the price of the RS connectors

Like anything else in this hobby, "value" is subjective and very personal. The level of refinement these plugs bring to my sound system was well worth the cost for me.


FYI - I have tried Radio Shack plugs like those you posted, but on my system I prefer the KLEI Bananas

If the Radio Shack plugs do the job for you - that’s fantastic! You have a solution that works for you AND you saved a bundle - you can’t beat that.

Regards - Steve

@grannyring - re:

I have some coming in to test vs Neotech and bare wire. I will report back. Will be interesting.

Would that be the Jumpers (which I have not tried)
- or the Banana plugs - see my review here...

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-much-difference-could-a-simple-banana-plug-make

Either way - I would be interested in your observations.

Cheers - Steve

FYI - The signal conductors of my speaker cables is currently....

https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/334-mil-spec-16-awg-silver-plated-copper-wire-green-cryo-trea...

The neutral is...
https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/1683-belden-9497-cryo-treated/

The cables resolve to a very high degree and provide exceptional dynamic performance, with a deep controlled bass, exceptional clarity and a spacious 3D image.

However, most of their superb abilities is actually due to the Helix geometry.

Adopting a more conventional geometry where signal and neutral conductors run side by side will probably not yield close to the same results.

I did look at Duelund wire, but the fact it is "tinned", which is not as conductive as silver plate, put me off

The Beldon Mil Spec 16 AWG Silver Plated Copper wire is a little more economical than the tinned Duelund and even more economical than the Silver plated Duelund version.

Note: I have found through a lot of experimentation...
- that the neutral can be constructed from a little lower quality conductor without degrading performance.
- PROVIDED:  it is at least twice the gauge of the signal conductor 

But again, that is using the Helix geometry - I cannot comment on how that design approach might impact conventional geometries, but I have read that it will provide some noticeable improvements.

Personally - I don’t think there is much difference between the Beldon or the Duelund conductors from a sound quality perspective. Both will provide very good sound quality

Regards - Steve

@grannyring - Have you tried the actual Beldon wire I used?

https://www.takefiveaudio.com/products/334-mil-spec-16-awg-silver-plated-copper-wire-green-cryo-trea...

If you did try it - did you use it in a Helix geometry cable?

I must admit I do not find it "closed in" and "dark sounding" at all - extremely spacious with a huge image and pinpoint placement of musicians.

Also, the impact of the dielectric tends to be reduced when employing a helix geometry because the conductors are almost at right angles with each other, resulting in very little surface area contact - hence low capacitance and low inductance

OK - so now you got me wondering.

Damn you - I thought I was done :-)

@grannyring - re:

Sound quality is so very subjective and terms like closed in and dark are relative. It may be we like entirely different sound signatures. I suspect this is in part true.

Yep - I believe that may be the case - different strokes for different folks
(but I still might give the Duelund a whirl)

RE: Cryo treating...

Have you ever compared Cryo treated vs. non-cryo’d wire or components ?

I’ve never had the opportunity to perform this comparison, since it is difficult to find a supplier with the identical products with/without treatment

So I am unable to form any opinion as to any benefit Cryo-treating "might" provide

I have used many cryo’d parts & wire, but they were not selected in preference to items not applying this process - they just came like that

For me, the jury is still out.

Since you appear to be "into" DIY, if you could share any experience you have had WRT cryo treating it would be appreciated.

AND - If anyone else has done this comparison please share your findings also.

Thanks - Steve

@grannyring - most plugs and cables from KLEI tend to go through a harsh spell and then settle down after around 20-30 hours.

They continue to get better as you approach the 120 mark.

They are very detailed, which some people may not like, but I’ve come to appreciate the additional details, especially when listening to live performance..

Pipe organ music is one area their improved details excel.

Because they convey to every facet of the waveform, I find they produce more reality from instruments and the musicians, which are also more precisely placed within the image

Looking forward to hearing more about these Bananas on the Duelund wire.

Cheers Steve

@grannyring - What components/speakers are you using for your audition ? 

Just looked at my review - Here's a clip after I completed the 120 hours burn-in...

• Jethro Tull’s - Songs From The Wood and The Steeleye Span Story had always sounded quite shrill, so I was expecting an even brighter performance. However, the harshness of both of these albums seemed to be tamed and the music had much more body and depth without sacrificing the very crisp dynamics.

So hang in there - only another 96 hours to go :-)

Regards - Steve 

@grannyring - would you be so kind as to report back after 200 hours or so - I’m still finding subtle improvements as time goes by - Mine have well over 300 hours now.

I’ve found that the best connection for spades is crimp and then solder because the crimp forms a mechanical joint first and then the solder fills in small spaces with a much smaller amount of solder, which prevents micro arching.

Unfortunately, plugs such as these, along with RCA jacks can only be soldered for an effective joint.

The design point for all KLEI connectors is to use just the right amount of the right type of conductive material in order to optimize the movement of electrons - I don’t understand it fully, but their web site has a few articles.

Adding more material for a screw type of design could possibly diminish the effectiveness of the plug making it no better than the Radio Shack variant and make it more expensive.

So what next - will you try their RCA’s perhaps? - they are excellent also :-)

Cheers - Steve :-)

+1 for the 4% silver WBT

I've tried a couple of eutectic types, but the WBT seems to flow much nicer throughout the joint and leaves a smooth finish by comparison

Don't know if the sound is impacted when used on speaker cables - I've never tried an A/B comparison.

But I did do an A/B on KLEI RCA plugs on my IC's from the phono stage and the WBT was a little faster in dynamic performance,  so I've always used it from that point on.

Regards - Steve

@grannyring  and @lak  - RE: making jumpers

During the development of my helix speaker cables I found that if I made  the neutral conductor twice the gauge of the signal conductor it improved on sound quality.

I see from the images of their jumpers and high end cables that KLE Innovations employs a similar approach with their cables and jumpers.

Perhaps this would also be beneficial for your DIY jumpers?

Just a thought - Steve :-)

@lak - I remember - here’s the text that I posted...

QUESTION: Have you ever tried using the 16 gauge for the signal on both LF and HF leads and then use the thicker 10 gauge as the neutral conductors of HF and LF leads.

The heavier gauge neutral works very well for me everytime

Regards - Steve :-)

@lak - I’m always glad to hear when something this simple makes such a noticeable improvement for others. It’s not guaranteed for all systems - I’ve had varied feedback from others.

But it is such a simple change. You would think all cable companies would know about this one.

Looking forward to hearing further feedback :-)