Very interesting Argyro. I would love to hear a Medea one day. I don't wish to keep ragging on the Minerva as I'm sure people who have followed this thread know my opinion on it's sound :). I appreciate
your comments. |
As an owner of the Weiss Medea I would agree that the Minerva is NOT that special. It is quite good for the money but not sth extrordinary. The only advantage it has the 24/192 through the Firewire connection.
Thats why Weiss is changing it almost after a year since its release although they have kept the Medea for more than 6 years as their reference....That alone, must mean a lot...;) |
One thing I forgot about in my test of the Bidat vs the AMR is the use of the digital cable. I used my buddies which I'm unfamiliar with. The two best digital cables I have ever used and which I own are the FIM gold coax digital and the Monarchy glass Tos. They sound nearly identical and the Monarhcy is the ONLY digital cable I have heard that is as good or better than the FIM. I will have to go back with my digital cable as I can not believe I let this major detail/component slip my mind when packing my gear to head over to my friends place.... Stay tuned.
Also the MSB is scheduled to be here on Wednesday:) |
This is an addendum to my last post. I want to be sure that I emphasize that the differences between the Bidat and the AMR 77 are not major. They are very close in sonics, but I do believe (at least on the majority of the recordings) that a bit of "tube-magic" was at work and to the beneft of the AMR.
Either way, at this point these are amongst the finest digital pieces I have come across.
Regards |
Ok, so today I took my Bidat (Plus) and the Weiss to my buddies place to compare the 3 to the latest version of the AMR 77 (I also listened to the AMR 777 little brother player). I only took the Weiss so my friend could hear if for himself, I knew it would not stand a chance.
His sys consists of Karan amp and preamp, I can't remember the name of the speakers but I will post here again after I speak to him.
Thirty seconds into the comparison of the Weiss to the Bidat, he said we could just take it out and place it on the sideline (it didn't go back in). He was a bit shocked at how digital the Weiss sounded.
THe latest AMR 77.... let me tell you, that thing makes MUSIC!!! I preferred most of the songs (over a 4 disc combination) on the AMR over the Bidat with the exception of Diana Krall. I think it could be as simple as the tube choice in the AMR. I felt her vocal were rendered better through the Bidat. My buddy did hear what I was referring to and acknowledged it.
The smaller AMR cd player was also VERY VERY GOOD!!! It wasn't quite up there with the 77 but man, for $4500 it is an awesome unit.
I will have the MSB Power Dac in probably late this week, that will be my next comparison.
At this point I would say that the AMR 77 is probably the best one box player I have ever heard (I think it has displaced the Dynavox Dynastation 2 in that category).
Will I buy one? I still have to hear the Music Playback Design, so I don't know as yet. |
I was thinking that my Weiss was a sysnergy problem with the rest of my gear, but I tested it with my wife's McIntosh setup and still could not hear what everyone else claims to hear. I am hoping to test out an Audio Valve component from my dealer and friend Mike Kay at Audio Archon. And next week he is letting me try out a nice Bryston BDA1 dac.
I am really looking forward to finding something that sounds better in my system than the Valab, but until then, I have no complaints with it at all.
Keep us posted on your findings. I am very interested to learn from your experience. |
Mattzack2: I feel your pain :)The Weiss is not staying, Ive just been comparing it to my Bidat (with the Plus Mod) and the Weiss was DESTROYED and I mean shamefully so. I am careful with my reviews and I don't post a greta deal becasue for one thing I know what I like and I don't need the approval of other sot justify my gear purchases, but I thought this thread might be of help to others :) The Weiss is not IMHO worth the praise it has been getting. I just ordered a M2Tech Hiface yesterday so that I will be able to get 24/192 out of my Mac, I will report on that when it arrives. So thus far the order is Bidat = King of Dacs / DCC-1 = better than Weiss / Weiss = trialing the pack and exit papers are imminent. |
FPlanner: i'm looking forward to your thoughts on the PSA combo. am assuming you'll be getting the pair?. if you are, will you be comparing them using the hdmi link between pwt/pwd?.
when i recently experimented with the pair using the various hook-ups, i (and two friends) found the hdmi to really shine over the other options. i also found (along with 3 other friends) that ps audio's own silver I2S-12 took things a notch higher then standard hdmi cable (please don't ask me how or why lol!).
doubt comparing the psa gear to the hi level stuff you're talking about will be even close unless the psa pair is set-up at it's best. the pwt and pwd are good piece's alone but without the someday to be released bridge, they beg to be used together via a good hdmi connection imho.
not having access to the type of fantastic digital gear you're talking about, i look forward to hearing what you think. having been a pwt/pwd owner since release, i'm wondering how the best digital i've ever heard stacks up against the real big dogs. can it run with them or are they in another league?.
thanks for the info. great thread!
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Hope I'm not too late to chime in on this thread. I just sold a Weiss Dac2 that I owned for just a few weeks that I could not hear what everyone was raving about. I put it in my system and had a few audiophile friends over to let them hopefully hear something extraordinary. They did not hear anything worth writing home about.
After swapping cables and trying to find that magic that everyone was raving about, my friend Antoine asked me to go get another preamp from my wife's McIntosh system. As I was about to go unhooking from our living room system, I saw the little Valab non oversampling dac that we bought off Ebay for $200... a lot easier to swap out the dac instead of the preamp I thought.
We had been using a Chesky Ultimate cd for reference that night... and not hearing the huge soundstage or the clear holographic sound that we were used to hearing on the other dac.
It took all of 2 seconds after swapping out the Weiss Dac2 with the Valab nos $200 dac that everyone just opened their mouths and literally gasped at the difference. Huge sound stage, crystal clear voices and instruments and holographic imaging so thick you could cut it with a machete.
How could this be happening?
We don't know, but it did. The Valab trounced the Weiss.
So I can definitely see Audiofun's not so stellar comment about the Weiss also. It must be a great dac to be getting all the praise, but it did not have the synergy to be welcomed into my system, as my ears judged. |
Thanks Fplanner2010, I would like to hear this unit. Perhaps i will get a chance to do just that one day. |
BR - I have no details as to when the SUPERDAC will be available or what it will cost. You might send an e-mial to Alex with your questions.
Audiofun - I understand your concern. I have had similar concerns, but Alex has ALWAYS come through for me over the past 5 years. The prototype SUPER-DAC is in a league of its own, IMO, regardless of price. I feel very fortunate. To each their own, as they say. Good luck. |
Fplanner2010: I can honestly tell you at this point I am only interested in the dacs I mentioned, i.e. MSB / Playback Designs / PS Audio. Oh yeah, I will have access to the very latest and greatest AMR 77 so I will be comparing all 3 the Weiss and the Bidat and AMR together in the same system this weekend if the weather is ok.
My Bidat is resident of course and isn't going anywhere.
The MSB Power Dac (I have heard that it is very very similar to the Plat Dac 3 but with less features and it is not truly balanced) is due to ship to me on Monday. I am testing all the units using the RCA outs.
I have read on here and other forums some things concerning APL that would cause me pause if I were interested in the products. |
Fplanner2010,
Do you know when SUPERDAC will be in market?
BR |
Audiofun: FYI - From the APL HiFi forum-
"The APL Hi-Fi site is being re-designed so it reflects the current products, provides more product detail and is easily upgraded, unlike the old one.
There are links to email and online forum at the bottom of the welcome page.
We've been busy with DAC boxes development:
1. All-solid-state one with 8 DACs per channel, transformer coupling and non-negative feedback output buffer capable of driving not only any cable or pre/amp, but also headphones. We do have a working prototype and I must say that only NWO-4.0-SE can outperform it. I believe that, at its price point, the new solid-state DAC box is an outstanding performer.
2. Top line DAC with 20 DACs per channel, transformer coupling and E182CC tubes, the same internal topology as the NWO-4.0-SE. Best sound, cost no object.
Both DACs come with volume control for direct-to-amp connection.
Thank you for your support and patience.
Best,
_________________
Alex Peychev" |
Fplanner2010: I have heard of the APL gear but not ever actually heard or seen it. I will look it up on the web. Forgive my typos from earlier please, I posted my previous response from my iPhone as I was running out of the house on the way to the office :) |
Hi guys, I have not tried the PS Audio get as yet but it is coming :) I do have Amarra :) and yea I would say you need it with the Weiss. It helps the Weiss tremendosly, I dare say it is a necessity. I wanted to evaluate the units nakedly ie nothing but iTunes. Please don't get me wrong, I certainly am not ragging on the Weiss, just trying to see if I can get it to sound musical :) |
Audiofun, you should really try the Weiss dac along with the Amarra software. The Amarrra works in tandem the iTunes interface. It may change your opinion of the Weiss. I have the Weiss Dac2 myself, and own the Amarra software as well. Note that the Amarra does not work on any compressed audio files, only lossless and hi-rez. You can download a free demo version of it here:
http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/amarra_mini.html |
I have a SUPER-DAC prototype from APL whose DACs in the Esoteric modded APL NWO 3.0 and 4.0SE literally have caused people to sell their vinyl rigs. 20 32-bit 2nd generation AKM Dacs/side, upsampler, 2 NOS-tubed class A output stage, etc., etc., etc. This is the first "stand-alone" DAC box ever designed by Alex Peychev that wasn't based around a transport of some kind.
The performance is nothing short of amazing. Production on APL stand-alone DAC boxes at a lower level should start sometime this year in Europe. As a prototype, the box is pretty rough and it doesn't yet have all the inputs it will be fitted with in final form. It does, however, sound better than anything I heard at CES, including all the well-know stacks and standalone players.
I have no connection to APL and it took me over 18 mos to finally get this SUPER-DAC prototype. It was worth the wait. I am in Denver. |
So are you listening to the PS Audio Perfect Wave digital also? It was mentioned in your orginal thread. |
Pardon my lack of proof-reading, I wrote:
"I do now want this to go into gear-fest, it is specifically to see for myself (and I am sharing for those interested) a real consumers (i.e. non dealer, non pro reviewer... non silent investor) point of view on a lot of newly hyped gear. Hope this helps :)"
I meant to say "I do NOT want this to go into gear-fest"
Thanks. |
Jim the auditioning is done in a relatively small room with hardwood floors (18ft by 15ft with 9ft ceilings) near field as to eliminate as much of the room as possible. I mentioned the connections used above (starting thread) as I will with the other dacs when they arrive. When I can used the same type of connection I will and with the same cable.
Components other than the dacs are my own design. Solid state amps 100 watts/channel and 2 way stand mount speakers. My larger sys consists of an active system which uses 6 channels of amplification and for this, I simply wanted to get at the soul of the device under test...very direct on level playing ground. The system I am using is very neutral...not thin, not cool, not warm... neutral.
I do now want this to go into gear-fest, it is specifically to see for myself (and I am sharing for those interested) a real consumers (i.e. non dealer, non pro reviewer... non silent investor) point of view on a lot of newly hyped gear. Hope this helps :)
I will tell you that I recently got rid of a Wadia 851, a Bat Rex and various other better known pieces. I sold my Manley Labs Neo 300's but I think I am going to buy that particular amp again, I used it on the tweets in my active system (with Princess Mesh plates...very NICE). I do prefer active systems over passive ANY DAY OF THE WEEK :) but the test system is all passive. |
Would you Mind listing your room size & main components here so a better feel can be had by others during your accounts of the varied converters?
Also, will the same interface be used on each DAC - playback system?
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