I already pointed out Graphene in constructing stronger and stiffer materials is not (rpt not) anything new. Djokovic has been using Head Graphene tennis racquets for some years. Graphene tennis racquets were introduced about six years ago. I have noticed at least one brand of high end bicycle racing tires are now available that employ Graphene for strength (puncture resistance). And that high end bike frames may already contain Graphene. You know, for strength and weight saving. I already mentioned tonearms, plinth, speaker cabinets, iso platforms as audio applications and some mentioned the other day somebody is experimenting with Graphene for tweeter diaphragms. The industry is slow to react. Very slow! So, my advice is hop on board the Graphene train. 🚂 Toot! Toot!
Beware of new material claims - the case of graphene
Given that graphene is quite the in vogue material for audio applications I wonder how many (if any) of the vendors selling this are actually sourcing the real thing?
http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/10/11/graphene-you-dont-get-what-you-pay-for
http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/10/11/graphene-you-dont-get-what-you-pay-for
77 responses Add your response
| Post removed |
Hello Geoff, the problem of using graphene as a material for uber-strong composits is -- at least for the moment -- the ubercost and low feasibility of creating long fibers in bulk/industrial quantities.... Typically, structural composites are formed by long strands of carbon fiber woven into cloth, soaked into uncured epoxy, transported and manipulated at about -50C, then shaped and layered, and finally cured to solidity inside autoclaves. One of the keys is "long fibers"... And that is one of the problems with current bulk manufacturing of graphene.... It's easy/cheap to create solutions containing self-standing micro-sheets.... But self-standing long fibers are a different matter all together. Th other problem of graphene is that while it has very desirable tensil strength, it has poor bending/torsion characteristics.... This might preclude its usage in many wiring applications, in spite it having electric resistivity less than Silver. Perhaps at some point it might be feasible to coat conducting lines on boards and circuit components with a monoatomic layers of graphene... But there is no guarantee that the audible result would be desirable. Rather, if the construction of graphene-based composites were feasible, it would be interesting to try them for components where rigidity and low mass can have a positive impact... E.g. speaker diaphragms, tone arms, etc...  G.     |
| Post removed |
You’re not following. I mentioned physical and electrical properties of Graphene. That’s why Graphene is being used in high end bike tires, tennis racquets, perhaps high end bike frames, I.e., tensile strength and lightness, as well as electrical contact enhancers and high end audio cables, I.e., superior conductivity and EMI/RFI shielding. In other words, it’s a product crying out 😪for applications. I will say, audiophiles seem to understand the implications better than many other industries. The way to build up tensile strength in applications would be to apply Graphene layers, each separated by some thin physical layer of some other material, thus maintaining the functionality and viability of the single layers of Graphene. |
eYes, a mono atomic layer of graphene is stronger than a monoatomic layer of Iron doped with carbon... And so is a thread of a spiderweb.... However, we go through spiderwebs without ever feeling them. Besides, how does this superior tensil strength matter in the audible performance of an audio cable? particularly when the form of graphene used is a powder or solution of micro/nano sheets? G. Â |
Graphene in its two dimensional firm is MUCH stronger, I.e., tensile strength, than steel. It is really a super material. That’s why production plants are cranking this stuff out by the ton, hoping to cash in. Graphene is also an excellent electrical conductor, a super conductor, as it were, much better than copper or silver. In addition Graphene is an excellent shield against EMI/RFI. Even in a 2-5 layer form, Graphene is a formidable material. |
It's no so much how he builds some parts of his cables using graphene, but why.... And is he using proper graphene two-dimensional crystal latice, or much more readily available and inexpensive bulk graphite powder instead? Graphene is constituted by single layers of carbon atoms arranged in a hexagonal matrix. I still do not understand what function these micro-sheets of material might have in audio applications from an engineering point of view... ... From a sheer marketing communication point of view instead.... That's an entirely other matter, just like all other new-fangled exotica *Grins!* G.    |
Well the link I included is to a very well respected manufacturer (based in NY) that supplies laboratories internationally. They supply micro-spectrographs of some of their products. The product I linked to is well priced and contains 99% single layer graphene. So rather than accepting an article that is issuing a broad warning without any investigation, people can find real graphene at reasonable prices with a small amount of research. I’m sure fraud is an issue. But remember that fraud occurs for anything of value. Cables, Rolex’s whatever. People can do a small amount of research to get the real thing. |
@deeperthought not sure you read the article in the original link which is from a well regarded chemistry blog. The point being that almost 100% of what is sold as single layer graphene is anything but that and unless you have the resources to assay what you are buying you’ve got no idea. I’m assuming no hi fi manufacturers test their graphene, they just trust their suppliers |
You guys should use Google. Graphene is easy to come by and is quite reasonably priced these days. https://graphene-supermarket.com/Pristine-Graphene-Monolayer-Flakes-50-ml.html |
Who has the technology to apply a single-molecule layer of carbon--a semi-conductor manufacturer? Â Would an audio cable or fuse even benefit from such a thin layer? Â Doubtful, but some process or material is providing superior conduction in products I am using, including Total Contact and SR Blue fuses--this much I know. Â Â Â |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
I agree with teo_audio. Graphene is a terribly difficult material to make into products outside the lab. One group that is close to bringing a headphone to market with driver diaphragms made of graphene is Oro. You can search for them over on Kickstarter. And theirs is layered graphene, rather than unitary molecular graphene. Still, they are so rigid they claim to have almost no modal breakup. We’ll see when they ship in 2019! |
| Post removed |
Proper graphene is still a bear to produce. It is likely that many that tout ’graphene’ as inclusive...are touting a marketing definition. https://www.graphene-info.com/ (It’s an ’all things graphene’ link. It will help one get up to speed and up to the moment -- in graphene data) |
Given that real Graphene is (defined as) one molecule thick and that layer upon layer of Graphene is really no longer Graphene, but still might be better than X, one imagines lots of care is required when making, handling and applying product. On the other hand Graphene has been used in certain tennis racquets for at least five years and is recently showing up in road bike tires. So, most likely by now some Graphene production is top notch. For the DIYer, well, you can always resort to the tape method. |