Better to buy a high end network player with a DAC?

 but you lose independence that a separate dac allows.

Almost every network music player I am aware of (Linn, Naim, SimAudio, etc.) offer the option of an SPDIF output if you really want to use a separate DAC.

The premise is flawed.  Plenty of great players out there come minus a DAC.  Melco, for one

Would you mind elaborating how you can make such a generalized statement with absolutely no explanation?

In actual fact, if done properly, integrating the streamer/player in the same component as the DAC offers a number of advantages including the fact that the player and DAC can share the same master clock internally, the signal paths are magnitudes shorter in length than any interface connection made outside the box, and if the manufacturer knows what they are doing, the player software can be optimized for the DAC chip itself.

How all these threads raving about Lumin players cannot at the very minimum acknowledge that the products are glorified Chinese knock-offs of Linn DS/DSM network music players is baffling, especially when the Linn products have far better performance and features.

Neg comments about Lumin see abit unfair.

You'll have to forgive me, as I was there in the beginning and saw exactly what Lumin did, which is essentially copy-cat Linn (in nearly every respect they could at the time). It's surprising to me that they have gained the popularity they have within the audio community to the point that a typical conversation about network streamers on any number of threads on this forum are filled with references to Lumin, and yet no mentions of the folks who so obviously inspired everything that Lumin did at the time.

The only advantage of internal DAC is convenience.

Again, people making claims with absolutely no comprehension of what they are talking about.

Can you explain to me how increasing the complexity and room for error in a given electrical circuit, and increasing the path the signal has to travel is in any way more beneficial?

should i feel comfortable buying Lumin? Is it really a Linn product?

It is most definitely not a Linn product. Essentially what they did was see what Linn were doing with the category and their Klimax DS at the time, and attempt to copy it in terms of build, architecture, etc.

I think Lumin has done a good job at trying to compete with Linn and as far as overall product build, support, and performance they are something worth considering, and I wouldn't personally feel uncomfortable purchasing and/or representing their product in the right application. However, to consider something like a Lumin without also looking into what a Linn DSM can do (and how they perform), along with other more established HiFi brands such as Naim, Sim Audio Moon, T+A (not as well known), etc. is sort of leaving a lot on the table.

Of course I am speaking of all-in-one streamer/DAC combos, getting into mixing and matching streamers and DACs is a whole other ball game.

just that the original premise of the OP, that players that come without DACs are bad, was incorrect

My apologies @mahler123 I misinterpreted your meaning. I though you were indicating that the premise of having a DAC built into/along with a player is somehow flawed. I now see what you were pointing out, that OP's premise that you can't find DAC-less players is flawed.

Yea, there are plenty of DAC-less players out there now. Most of them are just computers. Quite frankly if I was OP, I'd avoid Roon (their player doesn't sound particularly good), turn the Nucleus into a NAS, and use a UPnP/DLNA type solution if I were concerned with SQ - heck, a Raspberry Pi as an endpoint running SqueezePlayer or MPD would probably outperform what he has right now.

not the case with a player where it may offer an advantage when including a dac.  

As I see it, any DAC manufacturer not including a player solution are leaving things up to a crapshoot when it comes to their product because without a comprehension of what is happening upstream there is no way to guarantee the performance of the DAC in the first place. Further, it is my opinion that DAC manufacturers should publish the specifications and equipment used in developing their product, so that consumers know the following:

- What player software and file types were used in developing the DAC and it's associated interfaces
- What hardware was used for the player software, and which interfaces on that hardware were used in the development of the DAC
- If they include a player with the DAC, whether it is bespoke/custom or something provided by a third party, and specify which third party